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Thread: Clarification of "Getting Sticky" kit instructions for restoring aniline B&B Italia sofa

  1. #1
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    Apr 2024
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    Question Clarification of "Getting Sticky" kit instructions for restoring aniline B&B Italia sofa

    Hi, my "Leather Getting Sticky Restoration Kit L7" will be arriving today, and I wanted some clarification regarding the instructions.


    Background

    I acquired this leather sofa second-hand about a year ago.

    The production date is most likely late 80s - early 90s

    The manufacturer is B&B Italia, model "Alanda"

    The leather is most likely the original upholstery. I searched the B&B Italia material catalog to learn more about the leather that was used, but could not find an exact match.

    The leather is full grain aniline, confirmed by unzipping the cushions and inspecting the suede side.

    The finish of the leather was most likely originally matte. The surfaces such as frame, underside of arms, and covered portions of the cushions are all matte, however, the surfaces of the arm rests and back cushions are glossy, possibly due to wear, or some product used by the previous owner.

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    Issue

    After acquiring the sofa, I noticed that the seating areas had a grippy, or tacky feel to them, as opposed to the other surfaces of the sofa which were smooth and allowed my hand to glide over them.

    The problem is confined to the high traffic portions of the seating cushions, as in where butts make contact.

    The tacky feel does not extend to portions of the affected panels that do not see high traffic, such as under the armrest. If I glide my hand over the panel of leather constituting the seating area, it will transition from tacky, on the top high traffic area, to smooth, on any portion of the panel that does not see traffic such as the front of the cushion and under the armrest.

    The suede side of the affected areas also feels different than the suede side of the non-affected areas. The suede under the tacky areas feels almost damp, or possibly slightly oily, while the suede under the non-affected areas feels dry.


    Attempted Fixes and Products Used

    Upon acquiring the sofa, I vacuumed any debris and wiped all leather surfaces with Weiman leather wipes.

    I had a local leather restoration technician, referred by B&B Italia, assess the sofa in-person, however the technician didn't know how to solve the issue, and recommended not attempting to fix it.

    After research online, I could not find a satisfactory solution, but thought attempting to condition the leather wouldn't exacerbate the issue, so I performed one application of Bick 4 conditioner. The tacky surface remained unchanged.

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    Questions regarding use of "Leather Getting Sticky Restoration Kit L7"

    Step 1 How to work with Cleaner 1.5 and Acidifier 2.0?

    1* Dry soil removal before application.

    2* Apply Cleaner 1.5 and work with horsehair Brush 1 and towel extract until the towel shows clean.
    • When applying Cleaner 1.5, should I apply it directly to the leather, or apply it to the brush?

    • Does "Towel Extract" mean to blot the leather after applying the cleaner?

    • How much of the cleaner do I need to extract with the towel, as much as I possibly can?

    • Does "shows clean" mean when there's no visible dirt on the towel, or until no more cleaner can be extracted?



    3* Apply Acidifier 2.0 and work with horsehair Brush 1 to remove suspended residue and towel extract until the towel shows clean.
    • Do I need to wash the brush before using it again in this step?


    4* Repeat Acidifier 2.0 to saturate and dwell into the thickness of the leather to pH balance or neutralize, rinse, and towel extract until the sticky and tacky phenomenon diminishes. Proceed with Hydrator-3.3 while the leather is still wet and the sticky and tacky problem diminishes.
    • Does this imply that after extracting Acidifier 2.0 with a towel, I then reapply it with the horsehair brush, or by "saturate" am I supposed to pour more of the Acidifier than used in the prior step onto the surface of the leather?

    • By "dwell", am I supposed to leave the Acidifier on the leather for a certain time period?

    • I'm not sure what "rinse" means in this context.



    Step 2 How to work with Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0?

    1* Apply Hydrator 3.3 and work with horsehair Brush 1 into the leather and towel extract until the towel shows clean. This deep rinsing with Hydrator 3.3 helps flush out foreign contamination that causes the sticky and tacky problem to improve further. This deep saturation also helps to redistribute the displaced tanning agents to increase the hydrogen bonding between the leather fiber and the tanning agents to preserve the leather from denaturing into sticky and tacky rawhide.
    • Does "deep saturation" imply I should apply a larger amount than that of the Cleaner 1.5, for instance?



    2* Apply Fatliquor 5.0 and work into the leather with the help of brushing while the leather is wet. Allow all the soak-in water content to evaporate as the fatliquor takes its place, leaving only the fat and oil content to remain in the leather structure. This application is repeated until the leather is absorbed no more. Any excess on the surface is rinsed off with Hydrator 3.3 and left for slow natural drying. Before fully dried the leather is flexed or massaged to produce a softer leather.
    • How am I supposed to asses when the soak-in water has evaporated?

    • How do I assess when "the leather is absorbed no more"

    • By "rinsed off with Hydrator 3.3", does this imply brushing in the Hydrator with the horsehair brush, or does rinsing mean to apply the Hydrator in a different manner than in the previous step.

    • How long, approximately, does the "slow natural drying" take?



    Step 3 How to work with Protector B?

    1* Apply Protector B or the leather scent version Protector B Plus and spread with a foam brush or towel, leave it dry, and is ready to use.
    • About how long does this drying process take?



    General questions for use of "Getting Sticky" kit

    • Should I apply Cleaner 1.5, Acidifier 2.0, Hydrator 3.3, and Fatliquor 5.0 all in one continuous sequence? Or is there some step after-which I should wait before continuing?

    • After seeing photos of the sofa, do you still recommend performing this entire procedure on a test spot before applying it to the full seating area? My issue with using a test spot is that all of the affected areas are visible, there aren't any non-visible areas I can test to see if the procedure fixes the tacky issue.

    • Should I place any paper towels, or cloth towels between the leather and cushion material before performing the procedure?



    Thanks
    -Chris
    Last edited by redB&BSofa; 04-24-2024 at 10:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
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    Leather Getting Sticky Restoration Kit L7
    https://leatherdoctor.com/leather-ge...ration-kit-l7/


    >>> When applying Cleaner 1.5, should I apply it directly to the leather, or apply it to the brush?

    Spray Cleaner 1.5 directly to the leather.


    >>> Does "Towel Extract" mean to blot the leather after applying the cleaner?

    Yes, extract or blot when the soiling is suspended by brushing with a horse hair brush.


    >>> How much of the cleaner do I need to extract with the towel, as much as I possibly can?

    Yes, as much as you possibly can.


    >>> Does "shows clean" mean when there's no visible dirt on the towel, or until no more cleaner can be extracted?

    "shows clean" means when there's no visible dirt on the towel, that is correct.


    >>> Do I need to wash the brush before using it again in this step?

    Clean the brush by spraying it with Acidifier 2.0 and towel extract it clean before using it again.


    >>> Does this imply that after extracting Acidifier 2.0 with a towel, I then reapply it with the horsehair brush, or by "saturate" am I supposed to pour more of the Acidifier than used in the prior step onto the surface of the leather?

    By 'saturate' it means the product has to get into the leather structure preferably in your case through the suede side too. Since the suede side has no soiling, you could spray it wet too.


    >>> By "dwell", am I supposed to leave the Acidifier on the leather for a certain time period?


    By 'dwell', it means there is a delay of time to allow the Acidifier 2.0 to do its neutralizing work within the leather structure.


    >>> I'm not sure what "rinse" means in this context.
    Towel extract is the "rinse" in action.


    >>> Does "deep saturation" imply I should apply a larger amount than that of the Cleaner 1.5, for instance?

    Yes, Hydrator 3.3 works within the leather structure, thus needs a larger amount than just surface cleaning with Cleaner 1.5. The suede side should be wet in your situation.

    >>> How am I supposed to asses when the soak-in water has evaporated?

    Assess by visual and by finger contact.


    >>> How much Fatliquor 5.0 should I apply in the first application?

    As much as it can soak in, eventually 5/6 of the water content will evaporate.


    >>> How do I assess when "the leather is absorbed no more".

    By observation, when Fatliquor 5.0 just stays on the surface not absorbing anymore.


    >>> By "rinsed off with Hydrator 3.3", does this imply brushing in the Hydrator with the horsehair brush, or does rinsing mean to apply the Hydrator in a different manner than in the previous step.

    This is a surface cleaning with the same action as you have cleaned with Cleaner 1.5.


    >>> How long, approximately, does the "slow natural drying" take?

    Slow natural drying will vary depending on air movement and the humidity of the room. (estimate 1 to 2 days if you have soaked through the thickness of the leather)


    >>> About how long does this drying process take?

    Protector B is a surface application, so dry much faster than Fatliquor 5.0.


    >>> Should I apply Cleaner 1.5, Acidifier 2.0, Hydrator 3.3, and Fatliquor 5.0 all in one continuous sequence? Or is there some step after which I should wait before continuing?

    Yes, in a continuous 'WET' sequence.

    >>> After seeing photos of the sofa, do you still recommend performing this entire procedure on a test spot before applying it to the full seating area?

    You do not have enough products to treat the full seating area.

    [B]
    >>> My issue with using a test spot is that all of the affected areas are visible, there aren't any non-visible areas I can test to see if the procedure fixes the tacky issue.

    Pick a smaller panel like the armrest. Do you have a clue why you have a sticky issue, and do you know what the suffix of the Leather Doctor products represents?


    >>> Should I place any paper towels, or cloth towels between the leather and cushion material before performing the procedure?

    Better use some plastic trash bag or plastic sheet to separate the leather from the cushion material. This treatment especially with Hydrator 3.3 will activate the dyestuff and redistribute.

    >>> EDIT: I forgot to mention that the suede side of the affected areas also feels different than the suede side of the non-affected areas. The suede under the tacky areas feels almost damp, or possibly slightly oily, while the suede under the non-affected areas feels dry.

    I recommend that you treat the 'suede' side to evaluate your findings before attempting on the entire sofa.


    I appreciate it if you could help to edit and improve the information to make it more user-friendly.

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    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor / Coach
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: [email protected],
    email: [email protected]
    phone: 604 773 1878

  3. #3
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    The kit arrived in the mail earlier today.


    >>> By "dwell", am I supposed to leave the Acidifier on the leather for a certain time period?

    By 'dwell', it means there is a delay of time to allow the Acidifier 2.0 to do its neutralizing work within the leather structure.
    • How long should the delay be?



    >>> After seeing photos of the sofa, do you still recommend performing this entire procedure on a test spot before applying it to the full seating area?

    You do not have enough products to treat the full seating area.
    • What square footage can a single kit treat? The affected area is about 7ft²



    >>> My issue with using a test spot is that all of the affected areas are visible, there aren't any non-visible areas I can test to see if the procedure fixes the tacky issue.

    Pick a smaller panel like the armrest. Do you have a clue why you have a sticky issue, ...
    Because the seats were tacky when I purchased it second hand, I do not know the exact cause of the issue.

    Based on what I've read online, it seems the possible causes of a tacky or sticky finish are:

    • UV exposure

    • Spill

    • Over conditioning


    UV exposure doesn't fit the symptoms as it's only the seating area that's affected. If the sofa was exposed to prolonged sunlight, more than this area would be affected.

    A spill is possible, but there is no detectable sign of a spill other than the change in surface texture. There is no visible border, color change, or smell.

    I think the most likely cause is over conditioning or improper conditioning based on elimination, and also the fact that the tacky finish abruptly ends on the border of the exposed portion of the top facing side of the seat cushions.

    This fits with the previous owner applying some sort of product to the seat cushions, as opposed to a spill or oil buildup which I assume most likely wouldn't result in such a consistent and well-defined area.

    The product applied may not have been a conditioner, but some other cleaning or miscellaneous product.

    When I first noticed the tacky finish on the seats, I asked the previous owner what products they used, and they said they only occasionally used conditioners, however, the previous owner was not the same person who was living with the sofa when I purchased it, and the tenant of the owner may have applied some product without the owners knowledge.

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    ... and do you know what the suffix of the Leather Doctor products represents?
    I don't see any documentation, but assumed it's the pH of the product.

    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean to me, the layman end consumer.


    I appreciate it if you could help to edit and improve the information to make it more user-friendly.
    I added some line breaks and formatted my question in bulleted lists, let me know if you want me to make any more edits to my post to improve readability.
    Last edited by redB&BSofa; 04-26-2024 at 09:44 AM.

  4. #4
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    >>> By "dwell", am I supposed to leave the Acidifier on the leather for a certain time period?

    By 'dwell', it means there is a delay of time to allow the Acidifier 2.0 to do its neutralizing work within the leather structure.

    >>> How long should the delay be?

    The purpose of 'dwell' is to neutralize the possible alkaline residue that causes the stickiness. Delay until the leather gets a satisfactorily healthy squeaky feel. Towel extract and reapply until the sticky feel improves to satisfaction.


    >>> After seeing photos of the sofa, do you still recommend performing this entire procedure on a test spot before applying it to the full seating area?

    You do not have enough products to treat the full seating area.

    >>> What square footage can a single kit treat? The affected area is about 7ft²

    I have not done a calculation on the amount of product used per square feet basis because the thickness of the leather is unknown and varies in thickness from 0.9mm to 1.5mm. It also depends on how dry the leather is of its original fatliquor (fat and oil). The other unknown is how pH-contaminated the leather is will also vary from case to case. It is the result that matters, not the square footage.


    >>> My issue with using a test spot is that all of the affected areas are visible, there aren't any non-visible areas I can test to see if the procedure fixes the tacky issue.

    Pick a smaller panel like the armrest. Do you have a clue why you have a sticky issue, ...


    >>> Because the seats were tacky when I purchased it second hand, I do not know the exact cause of the issue.

    Based on what I've read online, it seems the possible causes of a tacky or sticky finish are:

    UV exposure

    Spill

    Over conditioning

    Based on the 'affected area' highlighted it is more likely a cleaning of rub-on-stains from constant sitting or just a new pair of jeans that could be the possible reason, and an alkaline cleaner was used.

    Over-conditioning is ruled out, otherwise, the armrest would be conditioned as well, which will also become sticky by conditioning. The leather care industry is still unclear or vague about conditioning. It does not take into account that there are two layers or strata of finished leather, the leather structure itself and its finishes. Structural conditioner like Fatliquor 5.0 to soften the leather, any surface residue will need to be removed to avoid a sticky surface.



    ... and do you know what the suffix of the Leather Doctor products represents?

    >>> I don't see any documentation, but assumed it's the pH of the product.

    >>> I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean to me, the layman end consumer.

    All Leather Doctor's products are pH specific because leather is an amphoteric protein material and is pH sensitive.

    Leather has a pH value of 3 to 5, and any product that is above 5, especially 7 and above will cause a side effect like bleeding, stickiness, and getting stiff when dry. So even with water with a pH value of 7, some leather upholstery manufacturers caution against its usage.

    So, Leather Doctor puts its pH value upfront, so you do not make a mistake. Any product that has a pH value above 5 needs to be pH balanced with a pH value below 2.

    And, after rinsing, you want to make sure that the leather has a healthy squeaky feel to be leather-safe!

  5. #5
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    Hi Roger,

    I was able to perform a test of Cleaner 1.5 -> Acidifier 2.0 -> Hydrator 3.3 -> Fatliquor 5.0 last night

    The process was mostly smooth, however a couple questions came up during the test:

    • When towel extracting during any step of the process, should the towel be wiped across the surface, or only blotted with pressure?

      I attempted to wipe the surface with the towel after the second 'Dwell Application' of Acidifier 2.0, and the towel picked up something noticeably brown.

      When I only blotted the surface during towel extraction, the towel remained white.

      I was unsure if the brown substance was dye being removed from the surface, so I only blotted while towel extracting for the remainder of the process.


    • How long should I wait between repeated applications of Fatliquor 5.0 before checking if anymore cannot be absorbed?

      I waited about 15 minutes between applications before inspecting for any dry spots on the surface of the test area.

      15 minutes after the third application of Fatliquor 5.0, I did not observe any dry spots forming and proceeded with rinsing.

      However, if I had waited even longer, it may be possible that some dry spots would have appeared eventually.


    My most concerning question:

    • After the third 'Dwell Application' of Acidifier 2.0, the surface of the test area was no longer glossy, and matched the matte appearance of the low traffic, unaffected, smooth areas of the cushion.

      The surface was still damp, but it seemed like the tackiness had been removed, and any remaining 'grippiness' as I moved my hand over the test area was the result of the dampness.
      • My assessment may be flawed, however, as I found it difficult to distinguish between the original tackiness of the surface, and the damp state of the leather after the application of Acidifier 2.0

      I was pleased with the result up to this point


      After the saturation with Hydrator 3.3, repeated applications of Fatliquor 5.0, and final rinsing with Hydrator 3.3, however, the surface of the test area became very sticky

      The towel had to be peeled away from the leather when extracting the final rinse of Hydrator 3.3.

      Being unsure if this was the intended result, I made the decision to rinse with Hydrator 3.3 two more times.

      This diminished the sticky finish and glossy appearance, however it did not entirely remove it.

      Instead of continuing to rinse with Hydrator 3.3, I decided to proceed to the drying process, thinking the residual stickiness and gloss would resolve with drying.

      About 12 hours have elapsed of the 24-48 hour drying period, and the surface still remains slightly sticky.

      Is this the expected outcome after application of Fatliquor 5.0? Should I continue to rinse with Hydrator 3.3?

      >>> EDIT Regarding above question:

      I proceeded with an additional rinsing of Hydrator 3.3 24 hours into the drying process.

      After this additional rinsing, the surface returned to the matte appearance it had after the application of Acidifier 2.0.

      From my inexperienced perspective, I believe the leather had the desired 'squeaky feel' after this additional rinse.

      In this state, my hand could still not glide smoothly, however, and I would still describe it as grippy.


    >>> EDIT after 48 hours of drying time since application of Fatliquor 5.0:

    Both the top side and 'suede side' of the leather felt dry to the touch, so I proceeded to apply Protector B with the included foam brush.


    >>> EDIT after allowing Protector B to dry for 1 hour:

    I am happy to report that after cleaning, hydrating, application of Fatliquor 5.0, and top coating with Protector B, the area that I tested has been completely restored.

    My hand can now glide smoothly across the surface of the test area, just like the unworn portions of the sofa. The difference is night and day, and I am beyond pleased with the result.

    I am so glad I chose not to listen to the leather technician who said the tackiness was irreparable, and that I found your products.

    I will probably ask for your advice on any additional restoration required for the rest of the leather upholstery.

    Thank you for developing such an amazing leather care system.
    -Chris


    Below are photos documenting the process, I forgot to document the application of Cleaner Pro 1.5, but it was straightforward.

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    Last edited by redB&BSofa; 05-01-2024 at 09:50 PM.

  6. #6
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    Photos continued:

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  7. #7
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    Photos continued:

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    Last edited by redB&BSofa; 05-01-2024 at 09:47 PM.

  8. #8
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    >>> I was able to perform a test of Cleaner 1.5 -> Acidifier 2.0 -> Hydrator 3.3 -> Fatliquor 5.0 last night

    >>> The process was mostly smooth, however, a couple of questions came up during the test:

    >>> When towel extracting during any step of the process, should the towel be wiped across the surface, or only blotted with pressure?

    >>> I attempted to wipe the surface with the towel after the second 'Dwell Application' of Acidifier 2.0, and the towel picked up something noticeably brown.

    >>> When I only blotted the surface during towel extraction, the towel remained white.

    >>> I was unsure if the brown substance was dye being removed from the surface, so I only blotted while towel extracting for the remainder of the process.


    * The objective of towel extraction is to remove suspended soiling particulates without physically damaging the leather finishes.


    * In this case, the wiping is preferred as it does pick up 'something noticeably brown'. It is not the dye, otherwise it will be red. Acidifier 2.0 with a pH value of 2.0 other attributes are for setting or fixing dyestuffs on those dye bleeding problems.



    >>> How long should I wait between repeated applications of Fatliquor 5.0 before checking if any more cannot be absorbed?

    >>> I waited about 15 minutes between applications before inspecting for any dry spots on the surface of the test area.

    >>> 15 minutes after the third application of Fatliquor 5.0, I did not observe any dry spots forming and proceeded with rinsing.

    >>> However, if I had waited even longer, it may be possible that some dry spots would have appeared eventually.


    * 15 minutes is a reasonable waiting time, but it also depends on the dryness of the leather. The dryness of leather refers to ionic negative (-ve) charged fat and oil that hydrogen bond with the ionic positive (+ve) charged leather fibrils.

    >>> My most concerning question:

    >>> After the third 'Dwell Application' of Acidifier 2.0, the surface of the test area was no longer glossy, and matched the matte appearance of the low traffic, unaffected, smooth areas of the cushion.

    >>> The surface was still damp, but it seemed like the tackiness had been removed, and any remaining 'grippiness' as I moved my hand over the test area was the result of the dampness.

    >>> My assessment may be flawed, however, as I found it difficult to distinguish between the original tackiness of the surface, and the damp state of the leather after the application of Acidifier 2.0

    >>> I was pleased with the result up to this point


    *After the third 'Dwell Application' did you brush and towel extract resulting in no longer 'glossy'? This glossy appearance could be from accumulated soiling, that should have been removed after brushing and towel extraction with Cleaner 1.5. The 'glossy' appearance should continue to improve with repeat brushing and towel extraction with Acidifier 2.0.

    *The second and third Acidifier 2.0 'Dwell Application' objective is to turn a 'slimy' feel into a 'squeaky' feel. When leather feels tacky in a dry state it will become slimy when wet with water pH 7, but in this case, we are using Acidifier 2.0, pH 2.0 so it should become squeaky in the test. Any tackiness, or sliminess from alkalinity exposure should disappear when the leather is pH balanced or neutralized.


    >>>After the saturation with Hydrator 3.3, repeated applications of Fatliquor 5.0, and final rinsing with Hydrator 3.3, however, the surface of the test area became very sticky

    >>> The towel had to be peeled away from the leather when extracting the final rinse of Hydrator 3.3.

    >>> Being unsure if this was the intended result, I made the decision to rinse with Hydrator 3.3 two more times.

    >>> This diminished the sticky finish and glossy appearance, however it did not entirely remove it.

    >>> Instead of continuing to rinse with Hydrator 3.3, I decided to proceed to the drying process, thinking the residual stickiness and gloss would resolve with drying.

    >>> About 12 hours have elapsed of the 24-48 hour drying period, and the surface still remains slightly sticky.

    >>> Is this the expected outcome after application of Fatliquor 5.0? Should I continue to rinse with Hydrator 3.3?


    * Can you describe what entails the 'final rinsing', is brushing part of the rinsing procedure that could be the issue, that the fat and oil remain on its surface causing the 'very sticky' phenomenon?

    >>> EDIT Regarding above question:

    >>> I proceeded with an additional rinsing of Hydrator 3.3 24 hours into the drying process.

    >>> After this additional rinsing, the surface returned to the matte appearance it had after the application of Acidifier 2.0.

    >>> From my inexperienced perspective, I believe the leather had the desired 'squeaky feel' after this additional rinse.

    >>> In this state, my hand could still not glide smoothly, however, and I would still describe it as grippy.


    *We are not expecting a 'smooth' glide, we need to have a 'squeaky' feel and reach the desired result.

    >>> EDIT after 48 hours of drying time since application of Fatliquor 5.0:

    >>> Both the top side and 'suede side' of the leather felt dry to the touch, so I proceeded to apply Protector B with the included foam brush.

    >>> EDIT after allowing Protector B to dry for 1 hour:

    >>> I am happy to report that after cleaning, hydrating, application of Fatliquor 5.0, and top coating with Protector B, the area that I tested has been completely restored.

    >>> My hand can now glide smoothly across the surface of the test area, just like the unworn portions of the sofa. The difference is night and day, and I am beyond pleased with the result.

    >>> I am so glad I chose not to listen to the leather technician who said the tackiness was irreparable, and that I found your products.

    >>> I will probably ask for your advice on any additional restoration required for the rest of the leather upholstery.

    >>> Thank you for developing such an amazing leather care system.


    * Note: Leather Protector B is not the topcoat. It is a smooth, buttery protector that prolongs the matching Aniline Gloss Topcoat 76G from wear and friction rubs.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    *After the third 'Dwell Application' did you brush and towel extract resulting in no longer 'glossy'?...The 'glossy' appearance should continue to improve with repeat brushing and towel extraction with Acidifier 2.0
    For each of the three 'Dwell Applications' of Acidifier 2.0, I brushed and towel extracted, and the 'glossy appearance' did turn more matte with each application.



    * Can you describe what entails the 'final rinsing', is brushing part of the rinsing procedure that could be the issue, that the fat and oil remain on its surface causing the 'very sticky' phenomenon?
    I performed a surface cleaning with Hydrator 3.3 - spraying the surface, brushing, and towel extracting.

    And I agree, I think the stickiness after applying Fatliquor 5.0 was caused by leftover fat and oil that wasn't removed with a single rinse.

    When tackling the rest of the seating area, I will continue rinsing until the stickiness is completely gone before drying, now that I know repeated rinsing will completely remove it, and that it should be squeaky at this stage.



    ...This glossy appearance could be from accumulated soiling, that should have been removed after brushing and towel extraction with Cleaner 1.5....

    * Note: Leather Protector B is not the topcoat. It is a smooth, buttery protector that prolongs the matching Aniline Gloss Topcoat 76G from wear and friction rubs.
    Your response prompted me to question whether the original finish of the leather was matte or glossy.

    I was working under the assumption that the original finish was matte, and that the gloss was caused by wear and body oils.

    I assumed this because the leather upholstery on the frame of the sofa is currently matte, and only the top/front facing surfaces of the arm, back, and seat cushions are glossy - the contact areas.

    What confuses me, however, is that despite the top/front facing surfaces of the arm, back, and seat cushions all being glossy, only the top surface of the seat cushions have the tacky feel.

    The glossy surfaces of the seat and back cushions still allow my hand to glide smoothly across them, much like the matte surfaces of the frame upholstery.

    I just searched for images of the same model sofa, and they all seem to have the same pattern of gloss finish on the seating area cushions (arms, back, seats), and matte finish on the sides and frame.

    All of the examples I found are a similar age to the sofa I own - 50-30 years old.

    Do you think this combined glossy and matte pattern could have been the original intended finish?

    And, given this information, do you recommend I apply Aniline Gloss Topcoat 76G?



    Below are 3 examples of other B&B Italia Alanda sofas that all show the same pattern of gloss on the seating area, and matte on the sides and frame.

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    Name:  AlandaExample2.jpg
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    Name:  AlandaExample4.jpg
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    Thanks,
    -Chris
    Last edited by redB&BSofa; 05-03-2024 at 06:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
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    Hi Roger,

    I read more about the leathers B&B Italia offers, and I think the most likely match to the material of my sofa is their Koto line.

    Here is a description of the Koto leather from B&B Italia's website:

    Typology: Aniline
    Hanger: 20
    Category: Koto
    Characteristics: young steer - chrome tanning - full grain - natural grain - aniline through-dyeing - natural aniline finish with waxes
    Do you think the gloss on the seating area of my sofa is due to the 'finish with waxes'?

    If this is the case, is it also plausible that B&B Italia applied more of the wax finish to the seating area than the sides and frame, resulting in a glossier appearance in those areas?

    If you believe the gloss is attributable to the wax finish, as opposed to a polyurethane topcoat, or oil/soiling, should I apply Aniline Top 21W and Protector W?

    Will the combination of Aniline Top 21W and Protector W result in a similar smooth feel as Protector B achieved in my test?

    Disregarding the tacky issue on the top surface of the seat cushions, if I wanted to rejuvenate the rest of the sofa cushions with cleaning and applications of Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0, does the wax finish first have to be removed, and then reapplied at the end of the process?

    Thanks,
    -Chris

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    >>> Do you think this combined glossy and matte pattern could have been the original intended finish?

    No!


    >>> And, given this information, do you recommend I apply Aniline Gloss Topcoat 76G?

    Maybe! The gloss level increases and builds up with each layer of application.


    >>> Do you think the gloss on the seating area of my sofa is due to the 'finish with waxes'?

    No!


    >>> If this is the case, is it also plausible that B&B Italia applied more of the wax finish to the seating area than the sides and frame, resulting in a glossier appearance in those areas?

    No!


    >>> If you believe the gloss is attributable to the wax finish, as opposed to a polyurethane topcoat, or oil/soiling, should I apply Aniline Top 21W and Protector W?

    The gloss is most likely accumulated soiling or aging conditioner that needs to be removed with the Degreaser 2.2 system.
    The original appearance needs to be restored before deciding which topcoat system to use.


    >>> Will the combination of Aniline Top 21W and Protector W result in a similar smooth feel as Protector B achieved in my test?


    A waxy feel versus a buttery feel, buttery feel is smoother.


    >>> Disregarding the tacky issue on the top surface of the seat cushions, if I wanted to rejuvenate the rest of the sofa cushions with cleaning and applications of Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0, does the wax finish first have to be removed, and then reapplied at the end of the process?

    Removing the wax topcoat may require a Stripper 2.3 system, which may be unnecessary. Degreaser 2.2 system removes build-up soiling and aging conditioner is the first approach to inspect for satisfaction on a test spot before considering removing the existing topcoat.

    For your further reading see this:
    Name:  Kit_AX6.tc__21084__84278.jpg
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    Aniline Leather Satin Waxy Topcoat Refinishing Kit AX6.tc
    https://leatherdoctor.com/aniline-le...ng-kit-ax6-tc/

    Aniline Leather Satin Waxy Topcoat Refinishing Kit AX6.tc by Leather Doctor degrease, clean, rinse, hydrate, soften, topcoat refinish, and protect wax leather.

    People Also Ask:

    1: What is Waxed Leather?

    2: What is Leather Degreasing?

    3: What is Topcoat Refinishing?

    4: What Products are Recommended for Topcoat Refinishing Aniline Satin Waxy Leathers?

    5: What is Leather Wet Processing?

    6: How to work with Degreaser 2.2, Acidifier 2.0, Clean 3.8, and Rinse 3.0 system?

    7: How to work with Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 system?

    8: What is Leather Dry Processing?

    9: How to work with Topcoat 21W?

    10: How to work with Protector W?

    1: What is Waxed Leather?

    1.2: Waxed leather is dyed through to the reverse suede side of the leather with a transparent aniline dyestuff, such as Aniline 21.

    1.3: The surface is then dye-coated with Aniline 76 to even out its appearance and sealed with a waxy topcoat using Topcoat 21W.

    1.4: This process brings out the natural beauty of the grain surface.

    1.5: To protect the leather topcoat from rubbing wear during usage, a non-stick, rub-resistant protector is applied routinely, such as Protector W or the leather-scented version Protector W Plus.

    1.6: This leather finishing system distinguishes waxed leather from other varieties of aniline leather, including wax pull-up leather by its top coat and top coat protector.

    2: What is Leather Degreasing?

    2.1: Degreasing or removing surface and penetrating body oil, grease, and sweat is essential for good topcoat bonding, just like any other refinishing work based on the same principle.

    2.2: However, the amphoteric protein leather material is especially pH-sensitive.

    2.3: The pH value of 3 to 5 should always be maintained during the leather degreasing process.

    2.4: A high pH value bleeds the dyestuff and displaces it, resulting in blotchiness.

    2.5: A high pH or alkaline degreaser can denature the leather when the tanning agents leach out, resulting in tackiness.

    2.6: All degreasing processes will also dry up some of the original fatliquor, especially with solvent-alcohol-based and alkaline products, which leads to leather stiffness and, when stressed, cracks.

    2.7: When degreasing existing cracks or dried leather, it is recommended to first hydrate and recondition or replenish the leather structure with sufficient fat and oil using the Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 system before degreasing.

    2.8: Softening the leather first helps prevent over-drying during the degreasing process, which may accentuate or magnify existing cracks, when the leather dries empty of fat and oil.

    3: What is Topcoat Refinishing?


    3.1: The preparation for topcoat refinishing varies depending on the extent of physical damage and the conditions of the topcoat itself.

    3.2: In most cases, partial or total removal is recommended for a stronger foundation and even out the appearance.

    3.3: The standard Topcoat Refinishing procedure is a 6-step process:

    3.4: 1st Step - Degreasing:

    3.5: Degreasing is done with Degreaser 2.2, followed by Acidifier 2.0 as a rinse and pH balancer system.

    3.6: 2nd Step - Stripping:

    3.7: Stripping is optional depending on the condition of the existing topcoat.

    3.8: The chemical stripping option is done with Stripper 2.3 and Stripping Brush 9.

    3.9: The physical shaving of the deteriorating topcoat is done with Razor 60 in sync with Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 system.

    3.10: 3rd Step - Rinsing and pH Balancing:

    3.11: Rinsing and pH balancing are done with Acidifier 2.0.

    3.12: This removes resurfaced soiling particulates to satisfaction and balances pH to eliminate any tackiness before topcoat refinishing.

    3.13: 4th Step - Hydrating and Fatliquoring:

    3.14: In penetrated soiling, hydrating helps resurface suspended soiling particulates to be towel extracted with a leather-safe pH 3.3 Hydrator 3.3.

    3.15: Hydrator 3.3 preconditions the leather, by relaxing and pathing the fibrous structure for effective fatliquoring with Fatliquor 5.0.

    3.16: As fatliquor diminishes from heat, aging, and leaching the leather becomes stiff which leads to cracks and weak with dry rotting.

    3.17: Fatliquor 5.0 is the lifeblood of leather that imparts softness and strength when dry.

    3.18: 5th Step - Topcoat Refinishing:

    3.19: Topcoat refinishing with Topcoat 21W after dry preparation with a dust-free surface.

    3.20: A lint-free folding towel or padding as the first coating ensures adhesion promotion for subsequent coating.

    3.21: Subsequent coating may be applied with a soft varnishing brush to avoid streaks or airbrushing for professional results.

    3.22: Allow it to dry between coatings until the desired result is achieved.

    3.23: 6th Step - Protection:

    3.24: The final sequence of steps is the application of Protector W or the leather scent version, Protector W Plus, to reduce friction wear on the topcoat and prevent soiling with a non-stick protective shield.

    4: What Products are Recommended for Topcoat Refinishing Aniline Satin Waxy Leathers?

    4.1: Degreaser 2.2, Acidifier 2.0, Clean 3.8, and Rinse 3.0 system.

    4.2: Degreaser 2.2 is a dual-purpose formulation with a pH value of 2.2 designed to safely degrease both surfaces and penetrate soiling while charging the leather protein structure ionic positive (+ve).

    4.3: Ionic charging increases the hydrogen bonding with the other ionic negative (-ve) leather constituents, such as the tanning agents, dyestuff, and fatliquor.

    4.4: Acidifier 2.0 is a water-based acidifier with a pH value of 2.0 that works in sync with Degreaser 2.2 to rinse and pH-balance by charging the leather protein fiber ionic positive (+ve), to increase the attraction between the ionic negative (-ve) leather constituents like the tanning agent, dyestuff, and fatliquor, preventing tackiness, bleeding, and stiffness.

    4.5: Cleaner 3.8 is an all-purpose, leather-safe, mild anionic universal cleaner, particularly effective in emulsifying general soiling and suspending particulates without potential side effects such as rings and browning on pH-sensitive aniline leathers.

    4.6: Rinse 3.0 is a rinse with a 3.0 pH value used to remove suspended soiling and balance the pH, also used in a final rinse after Acidifier 2.0 to bring the leather to a neutral pH of 3 to 5.

    4.7: Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 system.

    4.8: Hydrator 3.3 is a water-based pH 3.3 hydrating conditioner that relaxes and plumps the leather structure, providing strength for easy stretching and shaving of existing topcoats.

    4.9: The leather structure becomes stretchable against the stiffer topcoats, causing the aging topcoat to loosen for easy shaving, as an option.

    4.10: Fatliquor 5.0 is a pH 5.0 ionic negatively (-ve) charged micro-emulsion of fat, oil, and water for conditioning leather softness with strength when dry.

    4.11: Fatliquor 5.0, when applied to leather, causes the water-encased ionic-charged fat and oil molecules to break free and become attracted to the protein leather structure.

    4.12: This process results in free water being wicked away, leaving space for the natural transpiration of the leather.

    4.13: Aniline Satin Waxy Topcoat 21W

    4.14: Topcoat 21W is a water-based, fine particle-size urethane-resin emulsion satin wax topcoat designed to protect the natural tanning aniline dyestuff with excellent toughness and flexibility.

    4.15: Protector W

    4.16: Protector W is a soft, waxy-feel, non-stick, rub-resistant, protective conditioner that matches Topcoat 21W. Protector W Plus is the leather scent version.

    5: What is Leather Wet Processing?

    5.1: Wet processing is a continuous dovetailing system that includes the working sequence of Degreaser 2.2, followed by Acidifier 2.0, then Rinse 3.0, Hydrator 3.3, and ends with Fatliquor 5.0.

    5.2: The leather is continuously wet throughout the product applications and is extracted with a white absorbent towel until it shows clean.

    5.3: Hydrator 3.3 is used again after Fatliquor 5.0 to remove fat and oil sticky residue. It is left to dry naturally, and a little stretching when almost dry produces a softer leather with tensile strength.

    6: How to work with Degreaser 2.2, Acidifier 2.0, Clean 3.8, and Rinse 3.0 system?

    6.1: Degreaser 2.2 is swirled for about 5 minutes for the mixture to build up in coagulation and shaken until it gels for ease of application.

    6.2: Degreaser 2.2 works with leather Brush 1 to spread and brush deep into the stain area, and towel extract until the towel shows clean of soiling.

    6.3: Degreaser 2.2 is spread and feathered out to the remaining surrounding area without a dry line to improve the overall drying appearance.

    6.4: Eraser 4 is used for better traction without the risk of scratching the finish.

    6.5: Leather Brush 1 is also used for detailing stitching rows, welting, grooves, creases, and wrinkles.

    6.6: A dry absorbent towel extracts emulsified and suspended soil until it appears clean.

    6.7: Acidifier 2.0 is applied, brushed, and wiped, followed by towel extraction, changing folding sides until the towel shows clean.

    6.8: Acidifier 2.0 is applied again and left to pH balance if tackiness persists.

    6.9: A healthy leather with a squeaky feel with finger testing ends the pH-balancing treatment.

    6.10: Cleaner 3.8 is applied, brushed, and suspended soiling is towel extracted until the towel shows clean.

    6.11: Rinse 3.0 is applied, brushed, and the remaining residue is towel extracted until the towel shows clean.

    7: How to work with Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 system?

    7.1: Hydrator 3.3 is sprayed and brushed using a horsehair Leather Brush 1 to distribute and be absorbed into the leather structure.

    7.2: When the leather appears evenly saturated with moisture, staking, massaging, and flexing will return it to its original dimensions and is ready for fatliquoring.

    7.3: Fatliquor-5.0 is applied and brushed to distribute and be absorbed into the leather structure.

    7.4: Fatliquor-5.0 is applied repeatedly each time the water content evaporates and is continued until the leather cannot absorb any more.

    7.5: It is then left to dry slowly, and the surface fat and oil sticky residue is removed with Hydrator 3.3 until it becomes clear. The leather is left to dry slowly once again.

    7.6: Before it is fully dried, staking, massaging, or flexing it until it is fully dry will result in softer leather, which will be ready for the next process.

    8: What is Leather Dry Processing?

    8.1: The dry process begins with Eraser 4, and Razor 60 is an option to remove surface residues that may have wicked up.

    8.2: Darkening effect is improved with a deep stretching using a tablespoon.

    8.3: Topcoat 21W is best applied with a folded white lint-free towel like Towel 5 as the first coating to promote adhesion.

    8.4: New folding side is used when the towel picks up soiling residue.

    8.5: Sand2000 may be an option to use in between coatings, but sanding on the leather crust alone is not recommended.

    8.6: Protector W marks the end of the Dry Process.

    9: How to work with Leather Aniline Satin Waxy Topcoat 21W?

    9.1: The leather is inspected especially the penetrated stained area typically turns dark when soiling particulates resurface.

    9.2: Stretching or deep stretching with a tablespoon, brushing, erasing, or shaving with optional Razor 60 will lighten up the appearance.

    9.3: Any sanding required, is after the first coating has dried, to smooth out, without damage to the leather grain.

    9.4: Coating with a lint-free folding towel is recommended as the first coating to ensure adhesion promotion and pick up residual soiling.

    9.5: Other application methods may include foam brushing, a soft touch varnishing brushes reduces streaks, and airbrushing will produce professional result.

    9.6: Let dry between the coating and further fine sanding to smooth out continues in between coatings to satisfaction.

    9.7: Let the topcoat cure overnight for extra strength and inspection before the non-stick protection application.

    10: How to work with Protector W?

    10.1: Protector W is applied and spread with a folding towel for an even appearance, let dry, and is ready to use.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Hi Roger,

    >>> The gloss is most likely accumulated soiling or aging conditioner that needs to be removed with the Degreaser 2.2 system.
    The original appearance needs to be restored before deciding which topcoat system to use.


    So, Degreaser 2.2 -> Acidifier 2.0 -> Clean 3.8 -> Rinse 3.0 -> Hydrator 3.3 -> Fatliquor 5.0 will reveal the 'original appearance'

    I then match the topcoat with the appearance after this process.

    • Is that correct?



    In my test of Leather Getting Sticky Restoration Kit L7, 3 consecutive 30min 'Dwell Applications' of Acidifier 2.0 removed the glossy appearance of the test surface.

    • Is it possible that these 3 consecutive applications of Acidifier 2.0 removed the existing topcoat? - be it Glossy, Waxy Matte, or a combination?

      Or, did I reveal the 'original appearance' in this process, and can assume the original topcoat had a matte appearance?


    • How do I assess the integrity of a Wax Topcoat to determine when a new Wax Topcoat should be applied (or in my test of Getting Sticky, whether I stripped the topcoat)? Is the integrity of a Wax Topcoat correlated with luster, cracking, or other factors?

      Note: It's hard to find good photo examples of aniline leather with a wax topcoat because most Google searches result in examples of aniline, wax pull-up leather



    >>> Removing the wax topcoat may require a Stripper 2.3 system, which may be unnecessary. Degreaser 2.2 system removes build-up soiling and aging conditioner is the first approach to inspect for satisfaction on a test spot before considering removing the existing topcoat.

    • So Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 can be used effectively on leather with an existing wax topcoat, correct?



    >>> 1.5: To protect the leather topcoat from rubbing wear during usage, a non-stick, rub-resistant protector is applied routinely, such as Protector W or the leather-scented version Protector W Plus.

    • Can Protector B be used on top of a Aniline Top 21W without affecting the integrity of the Wax Topcoat, or effectiveness of the Protector?

      If so, I like the smooth feel of Protector B, but don't want to commit a leather faux pas by combing the aesthetic of a Wax Topcoat with a Buttery feel protector


    Thanks,
    -Chris

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    >>> The gloss is most likely accumulated soiling or aging conditioner that needs to be removed with the Degreaser 2.2 system.
    The original appearance needs to be restored before deciding which topcoat system to use.

    So, Degreaser 2.2 -> Acidifier 2.0 -> Clean 3.8 -> Rinse 3.0 -> Hydrator 3.3 -> Fatliquor 5.0 will reveal the 'original appearance'

    I then match the topcoat with the appearance after this process.

    Is that correct?

    * Acidifier 2.0 after Degreaser 2.2 should be able to reveal the original appearance when dry.


    In my test of Leather Getting Sticky Restoration Kit L7, 3 consecutive 30min 'Dwell Applications' of Acidifier 2.0 removed the glossy appearance of the test surface.

    Is it possible that these 3 consecutive applications of Acidifier 2.0 removed the existing topcoat? - be it Glossy, Waxy Matte, or a combination?

    Or, did I reveal the 'original appearance' in this process, and can assume the original topcoat had a matte appearance?

    *Acidifier 2.0 has no emulsifying power to break down accumulated soiling or aging conditioners. It only does the work of rinsing and pH balancing. What you experience could result from a lower cleaning power from Cleaner 1.5 being carried forward with Acidifier 2.0.


    How do I assess the integrity of a Wax Topcoat to determine when a new Wax Topcoat should be applied (or in my test of Getting Sticky, whether I stripped the topcoat)? Is the integrity of a Wax Topcoat correlated with luster, cracking, or other factors?

    * To assess the integrity of a wax topcoat, all accumulated soiling and aging conditioner has to be removed. Then compare with the leather surface that is hidden away to determine by visual inspection and tactile feel. Micro crazing develops with topcoats not visible to our naked eyes.

    Note: It's hard to find good photo examples of aniline leather with a wax topcoat because most Google searches result in examples of aniline, wax pull-up leather

    >>> Removing the wax topcoat may require a Stripper 2.3 system, which may be unnecessary. Degreaser 2.2 system removes build-up soiling and aging conditioner is the first approach to inspect for satisfaction on a test spot before considering removing the existing topcoat.

    So Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0 can be used effectively on leather with an existing wax topcoat, correct?

    * Correct!

    >>> 1.5: To protect the leather topcoat from rubbing wear during usage, a non-stick, rub-resistant protector is applied routinely, such as Protector W or the leather-scented version Protector W Plus.

    Can Protector B be used on top of a Aniline Top 21W without affecting the integrity of the Wax Topcoat, or effectiveness of the Protector?

    * Protectors are non-film forming unlike topcoats, and are the first layer to go off during a restorative cleaning with a Prep product such as Leather Prep 4.4.



    If so, I like the smooth feel of Protector B, but don't want to commit a leather faux pas by combing the aesthetic of a Wax Topcoat with a Buttery feel protector

    * The difference is only a waxy feel versus a buttery feel, they are removable so not a permanent issue.

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