Aniline - How should I Proceed with this 5 year old Severely Faded Aniline Leather Chair.

[chet]

Roger,

How should i proceed with 5 year old severely faded aniline leather chairs.

They have been kept in a heated gazebo ( not sure if heat is always on, but apparently they sun gets in).

They are now also dusty, he's afraid to sit on them for fear they will crack.

Very few spots if any, but the color looks to be gone, I will send a sample but I dont have a go ahead to proceed yet.

I think they should be cleaned, rinsed relaxed, fat liquored, and re dyed.

Let me know what you think?


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#3)

[Roger Koh]

Yes!

All the time when we talk about restoration, we are talking about both the leather structure and the leather finishes.

The entire leather structure need to be hydrated and fatliquored otherwise “he's afraid to sit on them for fear they will crack” - and he is right!

The finishes is the next phrase where the deteriorated topcoating has to go for new dyestuff and new coating - its the aesthetic reason that include the feel, the scent and to reduce the squeak when leather rubs against itself.

So let me know if you require the procedural steps.


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

Roger , I think he is almost ready to have these done let me know what procedure and dye stuff i will need.

[Roger Koh]

Step 1 - Prep Cleaning:
Sequence of process use Prep-7.7 > Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0
Tools to use – Leather Eraser-4 to scrub and test the strength of the exposed finishes.
Deteriorated old and weak finishes will not hold-up new finishes well and it is wiser to remove completely clean.
If there is partial removal of deteriorated topcoats then Razor-60 helps to shave off the remainder topcoats for an even appearance panel easier to work on.
Performing the stripping of the deteriorated finishes while the leather is wet makes the removal easier as the wet leather is stronger when wet and the finish are weaker. However, I think the finish may still be good (there is no need to remove unnecessary) as the picture have not shown signs of finish deterioration.

Step 2 – Leather Rejuvenating:
Sequence of process use Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Rinse-3.0
Hydrator-3.3 is the preconditioner for the Fatliquor-5.0 as it relaxes and penetrates the leather deeper to open up the inter-fibrillary spaces within the leather structure allowing the Fatliquor-5.0 to cover more grounds.
Without the Fatliquor, when leather is wet and dry again the fiber sticks together and stiffen up the leather as the fibrils cannot slide one against the other smoothly thus lost the suppleness and strength.
Remember to check for strays fatliquor that remains on the leather surface that may interfere with refinishing.
Spray Rinse-3.0 that will increase the hydrogen-bonding effect between the leather structure and the fatliquor until the surface is squeaky without the fats and oils.

Step 3 – Impregnating:
Assuming that the finishes stay intact in Step 1, we can skip the surface repair with Impregnator-26.

Step 4 – Color Restoration:
Matching Topcoat Aniline Dye-27 is recommended to layer up the color difference to the desired shade.

Step 5 – Top Coat Protection:
Topcoat Aniline-79Gloss is recommended to protect the dyes.

Step 6 – Non-Stick Protection:
Leather Scent-B is recommended, without the leather scent use Buttery Feel-76

Have you send the samples yet?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®
[email protected]

[chet]

I sent the sample today. there are 2 chairs, loose cushions and 2 small ottomans. Do you think 1 pint of dye is enough?

[Roger Koh]

“Guestimation” on product usage is trickier on absorbent aniline leathers as the coverage is unpredictable looking at pictures at this stage.

It is more accurate to “guestimate” after a good hydration and fatliquoring.

After finishing the worst piece you would know for sure how much you need for the rest.

So starting from 1 pint may be wise not to over order.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

Roger this is the chair for customer sidemark: Varon there are 2 chairs and 2 ottomans.

[Roger Koh]

Have you clean it yet?

Do you have pictures to see how absorbent the faded leather is?

[chet]

Roger,

We won't get the chairs until we receive the dye. The chairs were very dusty and faded, I had dust all over my clothes from getting the swatch of leather. I'm assuming some color will return just from cleaning, hydrating and fatliquoring. They are in an outdoor gazebo that is enclosed but only heated when used and no a/c in the summer, it has windows and screens.

After we receive the dye I will have the chairs brought to us, and begin the cleaning and restoration process. We'll take plenty of pictures; i think these will turn out great.

[Roger Koh]

Here is the color matching.

Transparent colors is applied by layers - Saturation from left to right to balance the difference shades out.

Is the color matching OK or you want it more Reddish of more Brownish?

Another consideration is the topcoat, not only as a protection against wet rubbing but it contribute to its level of gloss.

The top row is done with the new creation of a Topcoat Aniline-53 WAXY MATTE.

The middle row is after another new creation of ANILINE DYE-63.

The bottom row is the usual Topcoat Aniline-79 GLOSS.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[Roger Koh]

Here is the result with the bigger sample.

Again we are working with "Transparent" dye, other than "Translucent" or "Opaque".

Transparency dyestuff has "no hiding power".

So the different base color may be more difficult to work with than an even tone base.

Need to have a lot of eye judgement to produce an excellent job.

You may need the basic color to adjust along the way to balance up the color difference from existing fade from the original.

What do you think?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

Roger,
I think the match looks good, however maybe you could send a small vial of the color or colors that may need to be toned so we can adjust if neccesary. This could speed up the the entire process. If I was comfortable color matching i would purchase basic colors from you and mix them myself. We depend on you for the custom matching service.

The biggest problem ordering from you is time, from the time I mail a sample to the time I receive dye is usually 4 weeks. Our clientle become impatient. I would hope that we could speed it up.

[chet]

Started the Prep-7.7 (dwell overnight) I'm concerned, it's running down and looking like it is going to streak. What do you think?









Should I be worried, what should I do next.

[Roger Koh]

Not to panic!

Use the pH 2.0, Acidifier-2.0 to neutralize the pH 7.7 for control bleeding.

Spray and work (horizontally crosswise against the streaks) over with a foam brush to even out the streaks (take pictures).

Control evaporation by covering up with clear plastic sheet overnight.

Inspect the next day (take pictures)...and we can go from there.

If the streaks has improve...Then follow the subsequent process as usual: Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 > Hydrator-3.3 (wrap again and leave overnight - inspect take pictures) > Fatliquor-5.0 – slow dry and inspect (take pictures).

Note:
Used the leather-safe version Prep-4.4 for “stripping foreign contamination” for ALL aniline leathers instead!
Otherwise, have to apply it so evenly; without the drips with a wide foam brush.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

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#4

[Roger Koh]

Let's proceed to Cleaner-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 and inspect from there.

It looks like the streaks is the partial removal of the finish on this aniline leather.

The existing finish is best to be totally removed to even-out the appearance - that's mandatory.

We will see what's the easiest method to stripping it off evenly after the rinse and leather Eraser-4 combination (no physical aggressiveness necessary that will hurt the leather grains)


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

Roger,

There is no change to the streaks or drips. They are very prominent.

[chet]

Roger,

I'm definately worried, I think we have a big mess on our hands. there was no change.



Iknow we will have to get it even before we proceed.

[Jermaine]

What about Acetone?

[Roger Koh]

Prepare 4 Mix with Acetone:

1] Acetone: Acidifier-2.0 [ 1: 1]

2] Acetone: Cleaner-3.8 [ 1: 1]

3] Acetone: Acidifier-2.0 [ 3: 1]

4] Acetone: Cleaner-3.8 [ 3: 1]

Test it on Post #15, Picture #2 by Chet.

Spray, agitate with nubuck Brush-2 at an angle and extract the finish off.

See which formulation gives the best result.

Post pictures and we go from there!


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

We removed drips/ runs with 100% Acetone the 50% mixtures did not work. We now cleaned aggresively with clean 3.8 4-6 times buyt the areas that have a lot of finish still feel tacky.
We rinsed anyway, and Hydrated and covered with plastic overnight. Here are pictures.

I believe the runs / drips are under control, very faint at this stage.

My concerns;

Still tacky where there is a lot of finish left.

Some areas around welt are absorbing more hydrator and look like they will ring.

I just sprayed Hydrator on again, I would like to fatliquor, what do you think?

[Roger Koh]

My concerns;

Still tacky where there is a lot of finish left.
Test out the tackiness with Acidifier-2.0; spray, dwell and towel extract.

Some areas around welt are absorbing more hydrator and look like they will ring.
Similar test out with Acidifier to these welt areas.

I just sprayed Hydrator on again, I would like to fatliquor, what do you think?
Try correcting the tackiness and the potential rings prior to fatliquoring.

Let us know your progress prior to fatliquoring.

[chet]

Roger, acidifier agitation, dwell, extract repeat 3 x

Slight difference on tackiness, and water rings are getting worse.





It's where the stitching allows the moisture to penetrate from the back of the leather, all other areas still bead up and only allow very little penetration of moisture.

[Roger Koh]

Tackiness:
Work with leather Eraser-4 to have some traction to remove the tackiness with Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 (if the tackiness is from the finish) Acidifier-2.0 (if it is due to alkalinity).

Wet Rings:
May be due to uneven wetness; use blow-dryer (hair-dryer) and towel extraction; see if it evens out. An alternative is to check it out the next day for a complete dry out inspection.

[Roger Koh]

Dry Rings:
Do you have d'Tannin-3.5 and d'Tarnish-1.3 standby to treat the anticipated dry out rings or streaks problem?

[chet]

Rings are still there, theyare where moisture got into stitching and wicked into leather.

Leather is very resistant to abosorbing any moisture at all. It seems repellant.

Where i worked on the very noticable rings on the arms, I broke the surface tansion and now the areas with the rings is absorbant. In these areas I sprayed hydrator and fatliquor. I dried darker. So I sprayed it with hydrator and covered it with tissue over the weekend. Any other thoughts?

First two photos are how the hydrator immediately is absorbed into these areas. The third phot is a picture of the rings we can't get rid of.

[Jermaine]

This is after removing the tissue.

[Roger Koh]

Rings are still there, theyare where moisture got into stitching and wicked into leather.

Leather is very resistant to abosorbing any moisture at all. It seems repellant.

Where i worked on the very noticable rings on the arms, I broke the surface tansion and now the areas with the rings is absorbant. In these areas I sprayed hydrator and fatliquor. I dried darker. So I sprayed it with hydrator and covered it with tissue over the weekend. Any other thoughts?

First two photos are how the hydrator immediately is absorbed into these areas. The third phot is a picture of the rings we can't get rid of.

Task at hand is to break the surface tension:

1] Test out with acetone, spray and extract with cotton terry towel until surface is absorbent (take pictures).

2] Test out absorbency with Hydrator-3.3 for a thorough absorbent surface without patchiness (take pictures).


We go from there after inspection of 2].

[chet]

Roger,

Chairs have been dyed, and look very good but i have some concerns.

the leather feels a little rough in areas?
It seems to me that they are now pigmented leather, they look great but don't have the natural feel, is there any remedy?

Should I worry about how well the dye will stick, is there a test?



While trying to get dye next to and under the welt on the ottomans I applied too much color and they look darker.
Is there a remedy?
What is a good way to get dye in the crevace nest to the welt in the future?

[chet]

We need a faster easier way of posting pictures.

[chet]

Nightmare!!!!

Worst fear- the dye comes right off, I sprayed with rinse and the color comes off.


Help!

[chet]

As just stated, the dye did not adhere or penetrate into the leather at all. It wipes off. I tried 2 coats of top coat and it wipes off just as easily.

Remember these are the chairs that baked andf froze in an outdoor Gazebo for 6 years.

Would a pigmented finish stick?

[chet]

For the finish to have come off so easily in the first place. 6 years old and the color is gone, look at original pics.

could there have been a problem with the leather originally?

[Roger Koh]

Chairs have been dyed, and look very good but i have some concerns.

the leather feels a little rough in areas?

The roughness can be corrected by sanding with 1500 sand disc on pad (Remove from sander and sand by hand)

It seems to me that they are now pigmented leather,

They are not pigmented leathers; rather aniline coated leathers; Aniline Dye-63 would produce a finer feel than Aniline Color-69.

they look great but don't have the natural feel,

In the first place, the leather was unable to be hydrated; thus no fatliquoring at all; do play a part in the suppleness of the overall finish; not forgetting the micro-layers of coated colors all adds up; that lose its natural feel gradually along the way.

is there any remedy?

There is no remedy for the stiffness of the feel; except with Leather Scent-B will helps to modify the feel to be buttery; most often mistaken for softness of the leather.


Should I worry about how well the dye will stick, is there a test?

Test the product on a normal piece of leather and on surface of plastic bottle; hair dry it; leave it for a day for it to be fully cured; then do a clean and scratch test on it to see how the product stand out!

[chet]

If the dye is still loose this morning I'm going to clean it off and start the prep again.

I plan on using cleaner 3.8 and toweling it off. I tested a few areas and it seems to come off easily.

Nest; use Prep 7.7 to try and strip off more of the original finish.

Clean3.8

Rinse 3.0

Adhesion

Dye?

[chet]

Leather is imported from Thailand originaly from Leathermakers. If this could have any clue as to why were having so much trouble with it.

[Roger Koh]

Chet,

The problem is most likely in the thoroughness of the Wet Prep experience earlier..."We now cleaned aggresively with clean 3.8 4-6 times buyt the areas that have a lot of finish still feel tacky".

I have tried with cleaning the color sample test using cotton swab and Cleaner-3.8; the color stays very good!

Perhaps the color sample I done have sufficient curing time, thus making the wet-rub resistance stronger; and this test on the color sample was without the Top Coat or Adhesor-73.

So nothing wrong with the Aniline-63 or 69; we have to stress more on the thorough wet prep with sufficient curing time to settle this problem.


Test out a panel with these steps:

1] Strip original finish with Acetone; add 10 to 25% Acidifier-2.0 to slow down the fast evaporation for better control of the stripping process.

2] Fan force heats it dry.

3] Airbrush and pad-rub Adhesor-73 for better anchorage (for a stronger adhesion foundation) and “Fan Force Heat It” for an hour.

4] Dye coating and dry each layer thoroughly prior to further coating until desired result is reached; and leave it for an hour for sufficient curing with “Fan Force Heater”.

5] Top coat sufficiently to satisfaction and leave it overnight for sufficient curing with “Fan Force Heater”.

6] Non-Stick, Rub-Resistance protection application; Fan Force Heater dry it for an hour.

7] Adhesion test – Use 3M scotch-tape pressed hard to stick and fast pull if the coating peels.

8] If we pass the adhesion test; it done!

9] The wet rub strength will becomes stronger by the weeks before the next maintenance cleaning to see it through.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[Roger Koh]

How was the going!

Like to see some of your final results!


Roger Koh
Leather Doctor®

[chet]

We need a better faster way of posting pictures to this forum.

[Roger Koh]

Try using Topcoat Aniline-59WM to cut the shine if you wish.

On the cushion underside.

[Administrator]

We need a faster easier way of posting pictures.

We may have solve the problem...try, you should get direct posting.