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Thread: Rebecca Minkoff Nikki and Balenciaga Day Bag - cleaning?

  1. #1
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    Default Rebecca Minkoff Nikki and Balenciaga Day Bag - cleaning?

    Hi Roger,

    I recently bought 2 used bags from eBay and would like to purchase some appropriate to clean them.

    The first one is a Rebecca Minkoff Nikki bag.
    Looks like it has blue dye transfer on the back (please correct me if my guess is wrong).
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    The second one is a Balenciaga day bag.
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    The handle is the major problem area.
    And I think the rest of the bag need some revive too.

    Can you please advise how to clean them? thank you in advance!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by floflocat; 08-21-2013 at 07:01 PM.

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    Here are more pictures of the Balenciaga Day Bag.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

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    Thank you for the pictures.

    Rebecca Minkoff Nikki Leather Identification:
    This is most likely aniline leather with its cream tint, as they are no white dyes it could also be semi-aniline with micro-pigment.

    Blue Dye Transfer Stain:
    A leather-safe Prep-4.4 is recommended for the stain remover. Sticky residue has to be removed with Clean-3.8 follows with Rinse-3.0

    Finishes Damages:
    Picture #3, shows the stain as well as the finishes damages.

    Leather Rejuvenating:
    To relax the overstretch leather Hydrator-3.3 helps prior to replenish the fatliquor with Fatliquor-5.0 for softness and strength.

    Reduce Friction Wear:
    A buttery-feel rub-resistant protection helps reduce friction with Protector-B+


    Products mentioned are found in this Kit A3, based on the Aniline Leather Problem Solving Guide.

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    Aniline Leather Problem Solving Guide


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    Leather Doctor Kit A3 – Aniline Leather Care Kit

    Leather Doctor® Kit A3, aniline leather care kit is an innovative leather-safe (pH 3 - 5) system designed for keeping leathers at their highest level of appearance, maintaining its pH chemistry integrity, enhancing their suppleness and prevents premature ageing. Leathers that faced the sun, closed to fireplace and heaters dries out the fat and oil that keeps it supple sooner than the non-heat exposed areas. The diminishing of the fat and oil through evaporation results in the leather fibers being stick closer together that results in stiffness and when flexed during used will lead to cracks. Periodic use of Hydrator-3.3 to plumps the stick together fibers prior to fat and oil replenishing with Fatliquor-5.0 will keep the leather supple and strong. Thus, reduce the premature ageing of the leather against stiffness and cracking. The surface wear of the leather is greatly reduced with friction noise reduction. This is preventable with a rub-resistant Protector-B+ that imparts a natural buttery-feel. Periodic cleaning and rinsing with Cleaner-3.8 follows by Rinse-3.0 to the bare body contact areas like headrest and armrest helps reduce greasy soiling build-up. Restorative cleaning and occasional dye stains removal from new blue jeans is accomplished with Prep-4.4. Note that the mentioned product suffix number denotes its pH value in this leather-safe holistic care system.

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    Balenciaga Day Bag:
    This leather type is identified as Aniline Wax Pull-up fashion effect.

    Information on Aniline Wax Pull-up Leathers:
    Wax Pull-up leathers derive its color from dye, fatliquor and wax. When this leather is pulled, stretched or scratched, the wax dissipate characteristically and become lighter in those areas. Wax pull-up effect created from aniline gives the leather a lively distressed look. The term “crazy horse” is associated with some heavy wax pull-up applied to aniline leathers. These are secondary wax infused into the leather. Besides contributing to the color intensity, it improves in water shedding effect. Emulsion wax when applied to the leather penetrates while some coagulates as fine crystal and remains on the surface. The dried surface white powdery deposits are then heat activated and when they melt, they coat the surface with a glossy sheen. Impregnated emulsion pull-up wax behaves similar to fatliquor, they do diminish through ageing and will need periodic replenishing. Sunlight and stretching through high wear areas are two main indications that the infused wax or oil needs replenishing.

    Handle Degreasing:
    Degreasing the handles is accomplished with Degreaser-2.2 follows with Acidifier-2.0 for control bleeding.

    Reviving or Rejuvenating:
    Relaxing of the leather stiffness to rid of unwanted creases is accomplished with Hydrator-3.3 with stretching.
    Softening of the leather is achieved by replenishing the leather structure with Fatliquor-5.0 immediately after Hydrator-3.3.
    Reviving the diminishing wax effect is with Wax Effect-8.6

    Picture Observation:
    Third last picture shows possible some dye transfer stain that will require Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0.
    The unknown brown marks other than Prep-4.4 may require specialty stain remover according to the Leather Problem Solving Guide.

    In your situation, you would want to combine the two kits with no duplication of products ordered.

    Aniline Wax Pull-Up Leather Problem Solving Guide as reference to the cleaning and restoration of this bag.
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    Leather Doctor Kit Aw5.dr – Aniline Wax Pull-up Leather Degreaser Kit
    Leather Doctor® Kit Aw5.dr, aniline wax pull-up leather degreaser kit is designed for routine degreasing leathers from preventing topcoat and dyestuff finishes damages especially to the headrest and armrest areas with most of bare body contacts. Topcoat and dyestuff refinishing products are found in Kit Aw6.tc and Kit Aw7.cl respectively. Preventive regular surface degreasing is preferred over corrective penetrated degreasing as most often, the topcoat is damaged and in severe cases, the dyestuff break bonds with the protein fiber. Preventive degreasing is done before a penetrating darkening effect manifest. Degreaser-2.2 is a waterbased (pH 2.2) multifunctional degreaser that besides emulsifying the grease contamination, it controls dye bleeding and charging the protein fiber ionic positive for strengthening the ionic attraction between the ionic negative tanning agent, dyestuff and fatliquor. Deflocculated and suspended soiling is towel extracted, thereafter rinse and pH balanced with Acidifier-2.0 to prevent the leather from reverting to rawhide. When leather feels sticky or slimy it is a sign of leather denaturing, a squeaky feel when wet is a sign of healthy leather. Hydrator-3.3 relaxes stiff leathers and removes surface tension free from surface blotchiness prior to fat and oil replenishing. Fat and oil is replenished with Fatliquor-5.0 to rejuvenate the leather for the desired suppleness when dry.Wax Effect-8.6 rejuvenates the structural wax pull-up effect and coagulates a cloudy waxy coating on the surface to be heat activated into the characteristic glossy sheen. Protector-D+ enhances a non-stick draggy-feel to shield against sticky soiling, besides healing and concealing lightening scuff and abrasion marks. Note that the mentioned product suffix number denotes its pH value in this holistic leather-safe aniline wax pull-up leathers degreasing system.

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    Hi Roger,
    Thank you so much for your detailed explanations.
    It seems that I should get either kit with some add-ons items.
    I can see that the Kit A3 has Protector-B+ and Kit Aw5.dr has Protector-D+.
    Does it matters which Protector I use on these 2 bags?

    Thank you in advance.

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    Some similarity with differences.

    The “+” sign indicates that they are leather-scented; otherwise you can opt for the scentless version Protector-B or D.

    Both are non-film forming that allows leather natural transpiration to take place or breathes, the moisture in the bag can pass through the leather as vapor thus reducing the potential bacteria or mold infestation.

    “B” is short for buttery-feel, that impart a non-stick, rub-resistant protection against sticky soiling including the common ballpoint ink from dispensing it nasty ink. Rub-resistant protection helps in reducing friction noise thus prolongs the leather finishes wear.

    “D” is short for draggy-feel that gives grip to the leather, a waxy non-stick protection that heals and conceal scuff marks especially to aniline wax pull-up leathers.

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant

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    Hi Roger,
    I'm ready to work on the Handle Degreasing of the Balenciaga bag.
    Can you give me some instruction on how to use the Degreaser-2.2 and Acidifier-2.0?
    Thank you in advance!
    Florence

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    Take a close-up picture before you begin.

    It looks like these are penetrated stains from body oil, grease and sweat. The final deep below surface degreasing may also reveal finishes damages including texture roughness and has to be rectified accordingly.

    We have to be prepared for a full repair and refinishing prior to degreasing it thus a typical process may take these processes.

    1. Apply Degreaser-2.2 and let is penetrate into the leather structure with the help of horsehair Brush-1 agitation.
    2. Let it dwell for at least 30 minutes or before it dries.
    3. Apply Acidifier-2.0 that follows deeper than the Degreaser-2.2, horsehair brush agitate it and extract with terry towel until towel shows clean.
    4. Let crispy dry and use Eraser-4 to erase surface soiling particulates.
    5. Inspection follows – this is when you want to take pictures and I will help you decide whether degreasing was thorough, otherwise the degreasing process has to be repeated as suspended soiling particulates is still lining up below surface to appear.
    6. A thorough moving of colloidal foreign contamination is with the help of Hydrator-3.3, this hydrating process is to relax the leather structure to release suspended soiling particulates still lodge within the leather inter-fribillary spaces to resurface.
    An effective hydrating is allowing the leather to be saturated with a full moisture content for up to 72 hours. Evaporation control is by means of wrapping with food cling wrapper. When cling wrapper is removed a smooth tissue paper is replace to become an extension of the leather surface without air spaces. As moisture evaporates through the tissue paper, the soiling particulates is being trapped by the tissue paper instead of being on the pores of the leather surface. When crispy dry leather surface remaining soiling particulates is dislodged with the help of the Eraser-4.

    7. Inspection.

    8. When appearance of the darkening effect improves, the next phase is to soften and strengthen the leather to impart softness and strength from cracking.

    9. Hydrator-3.3 is applied to check for surface tension and as long as it produces an even appearance Fatliquor-5.0 replenishing follows. The more that is applied to the leather the softer and stronger the leather becomes.

    10. Inspection.

    We like to see some pictures before we continue, otherwise we may be too far from the actual situation.

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant
    www.LeatherDoctor.com

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    Hi Roger,
    Thank you for your reply.
    I have a few question before proceeding:
    1. I read from other posts that the Degreaser need to be shaken to gel before using. Should I do the same here too?
    2. Should I apply the Degreaser directly onto the handle or onto the brush?
    3. As you may already know, there's some fabric threads on the handles of Balenciaga bags, is it ok to apply products onto the thread too? Or do I need to avoid getting products on the thread?
    4. What is Eraser-4? It's not included in the products you suggested me to purchase in the previous posts. Since I already purchased the products you recommended, getting it again from your store would incur additional shipping charge. Can it be replaced with some common stuff?

    Thank you again for your help.

    Regards,
    Florence

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    Hi Roger,
    Here is a close up picture.
    Regards,
    Florence
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    >>>I have a few question before proceeding:


    >>>I read from other posts that the Degreaser need to be shaken to gel before using. Should I do the same here too?

    Yes, shake it well to gel prior to use to increase emulsion viscosity for easy control of application.


    >>>Should I apply the Degreaser directly onto the handle or onto the brush?

    Just like brushing our teeth, apply to Brush-1 then to the handle for better control of application.


    >>>As you may already know, there's some fabric threads on the handles of Balenciaga bags, is it ok to apply products onto the thread too? Or do I need to avoid getting products on the thread?

    Work the products with all of them over the thread – there is no way to avoid them.


    >>>What is Eraser-4? It's not included in the products you suggested me to purchase in the previous posts. Since I already purchased the products you recommended, getting it again from your store would incur additional shipping charge. Can it be replaced with some common stuff?

    You may replace with a dry terry towel or horsehair Brush-1 for dry and wet soil removal.
    Otherwise see product from this link: http://www.leatherdoctor.com/servlet...h-4/Categories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,
    Here is a close up picture.
    Regards,
    Florence

    From the detail pictures, we see whitish cracks between the the darkening effect.

    The whitest coloring reveals lost colouring.

    The cracking reveals damage topcoats.

    Most of the deteriorated finishes will probably be removed.

    The darkening effect areas when removed may reveal leather surface abrasion that is now seal with layers of oil and grease (that may require further steps to complete the restoration).

    Please take a look at the guide for reference the possible steps to take after degreasing.

    For "penetrated oil, grease and sweat" complete system will require 9 steps for a holistic restoration.

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant
    www.LeatherDoctor.com

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    Hi Roger,

    This picture was taken after the applying the degreaser and acidifier. Although it's not mentioned in your instruction that I need to let the solution sit before extracting with terry towel, I let it wait a bit before using the white towel included in the package because I read the instruction on the bottle and it says I need to let it sit for 10-30 mins. Hope that I'm doing it right.

    However, I see no dirt come off when I wiped the handle with the towel.

    Another picture will follow.

    Regards,
    Florence
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Hi Roger,

    Here is a picture taken after it's completely dried (7 hours of dry time). The color already even out. Since I don't see any dirt particles coming off, I suspect that dirt are still trapped inside the leather. What do you think. Do I need to do the degrease procedure again?

    Thank you.
    Florence
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,

    This picture was taken after the applying the degreaser and acidifier. Although it's not mentioned in your instruction that I need to let the solution sit before extracting with terry towel, I let it wait a bit before using the white towel included in the package because I read the instruction on the bottle and it says I need to let it sit for 10-30 mins. Hope that I'm doing it right.

    However, I see no dirt come off when I wiped the handle with the towel.

    Another picture will follow.

    Regards,
    Florence

    Possible overlook is the level of moisture content.

    1. Degreaser-2.2 has to saturate INTO the leather structure.
    2. So thus Acidifier-2.0 thereafter in conjunction with horsehair Brush-1.
    3. The towel during extraction should show wetness, otherwise the suspended soiling is still stuck in the leather inter fibrillary structure and lodges within the surface pores.
    4. The process is usually repeated as each cycle brings more to the surface to be extracted while damp and erased when crispy dry.
    5. The final step is to use Hydrator-3.3 instead of Acidifier-2.0 to hydrate and moves the suspended soiling particulates more efficiently.

    Note: You may use terry towel either wet or dry for liquid extraction and erasing (in place of Eraser-4).

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,

    Here is a picture taken after it's completely dried (7 hours of dry time). The color already even out. Since I don't see any dirt particles coming off, I suspect that dirt are still trapped inside the leather. What do you think. Do I need to do the degrease procedure again?

    Thank you.
    Florence

    You may leave until it is crispy dry, then use dry horsehair Brush-1 / Eraser-4 to remove surface soiling particulates that may have been lodge within the pores or micro crazing or cracks. Work this soiling out prior to repeating the degreasing process.

    These are the 3 wet sequence of process that works in conjunction as a holistic degreasing process.
    1. Degreaser.2.2 (Deflocculating and Protonating)
    2. Acidifier-2.0 (Rinsing and Bleeding Control)
    3. Hydrator-3.3 (Facilitating Internal Colloidal Movement)

    You may repeat above 1 & 2, suspect that you have not use the product sufficiently, that’s why the towel has not pick up any soiling. Please show pictures at each stage so we know you are doing it correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,

    Although it's not mentioned in your instruction that I need to let the solution sit before extracting with terry towel, I let it wait a bit before using the white towel included in the package because I read the instruction on the bottle and it says I need to let it sit for 10-30 mins. Hope that I'm doing it right.
    After spraying on the Acidifier, should I wait before extracting with towel?

    Do I really need a terry towel or would the white towel included in the package works too? How about microfiber towel?

    Regards,
    Florence

  18. #18
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    >>>After spraying on the Acidifier, should I wait before extracting with towel?

    To flush out the suspended soiling particulates there must be sufficient moisture within the leather structure. If there is sufficient moisture (moisture oozing out when press between thumb and finger) and the longer it dwells will help move suspended soiling to the surface. Before extraction check moisture level again and plumps it up one more time prior to towel extraction.

    Point to note is to have an optimum moisture level prior to towel extraction; waiting time may be extended as long as moisture level is kept plumps up.



    >>>Do I really need a terry towel or would the white towel included in the package works too? How about microfiber towel?

    In practice a thick terry towel works better in wet soiling extraction. Any towel good for drying our skin is also good for leather. Paper towel does not carry much moisture and easily saturated. Microfiber has no comparison with the common terry towel for volume capacity of wet extraction, otherwise they will be replaced as bath towel.
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 09-18-2013 at 09:37 AM.

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    Thank you so much for your instruction, Roger.
    In order to do a right, I would like to ask more question:
    1. does "agitate" mean brushing across the surface in long stroke or just moving the horsehair brush in vibrating motion over the same spot?
    2. when doing the "extraction", do I "wipe" the towel across the surface or gently press/pat onto the surface?

    Thank you.
    Florence

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    Thank you so much for your instruction, Roger.
    In order to do a right, I would like to ask more question:
    >>>does "agitate" mean brushing across the surface in long stroke or just moving the horsehair brush in vibrating motion over the same spot?

    Agitation means - moving the horsehair brush in vibrating motion over the same spot, with very light pressure so that the tip just brushes the surface into the grooves, creases or cracks more efficiently.


    >>>when doing the "extraction", do I "wipe" the towel across the surface or gently press/pat onto the surface?

    Extraction “from within the thickness of the leather structure” will require squeezing or wringing or scudding or a combination of these physical actions to flush out suspended soiling.


    Note:
    In contrast when leather is dry stiff prior to fatliquor (fat, oil and water) replenishing, gentleness is the recommendation otherwise rough handling with flexing may crack it.

    It is only after drying with Fatliquor-5.0 that physical manipulating will further soften and strengthen it.

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    Hi Roger,

    I tried to follow as close as possible your instruction, and here are the steps I did:
    Before I proceeded:
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    The handle is fully saturated with Degreaser:
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    Here is what's left in the Degreaser bottle after the application. I used pretty much:
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    Then I made a mistake of the order of the procedure: I used wet towel to extract before spraying the acidifier.

    Here is what was extracted on the towel:
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    After wet towel extraction:
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    After realizing my mistake, I sprayed on the acidiier and do the extraction again. More dirt comes off and left brownish/ yellowish stain on the towel.

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    After 7 hours of dry time, this is how it looks:
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    Looks like it's lighten, however leaving a few darker spots.
    Here is the other side of the handle. Also there's some darker spots:
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    I feel that the products are doing the job of extracting the dirt in the leather.
    BTW, the handle feel very dry now.
    What would be the next step?
    Thank you Roger for your help.

    Florence

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    >>>Also there's some darker spots:

    These dark spots may not be body oil, grease or sweat related – you may refer to the reference guide – Most likely is protein related stains that tends to coagulate. Try using a blunt bamboo skewers or toothpick to work out the surface coagulating stains.


    >>>the handle feel very dry now.

    When the leather is crispy dry, work with Eraser-4 / Brush-1 or other equivalent like Dry Terry Towel / Fine White 3M Nylon Pad to dislodge remaining surface soiling particulates.


    In reference to the above guide, the next step is #3 with Hydrator-3.3.
    It is saturating (plumps the leather until moisture oozing out when lightly press between fingers and thumb) with Hydrator-3.3. Advance techniques uses facial tissue paper to wrap it that becomes an extension of the leather surface. Food wrapper is used to control evaporation and this technique with the tissue paper and cling wrap is left for dwelling up to 72 hours. The plastic wrapping is removed to allow evaporation with the paper tissue still in place. This dwelling process helps in colloidal movement within the leather structure and when the evaporation control is remove wick the remaining suspended soiling through the tissue paper. The “stain” tissue paper is removed when the leather is crispy dry.

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant
    www.LeatherDoctor.com
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 09-19-2013 at 09:46 AM.

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    Hi Roger,

    Thank you so much for your advices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    These dark spots may not be body oil, grease or sweat related – you may refer to the reference guide – Most likely is protein related stains that tends to coagulate. Try using a blunt bamboo skewers or toothpick to work out the surface coagulating stains.
    [/url]
    Will using a blunt bamboo skewers or toothpick to work out the surface coagulating stains damage the leather surface?

    Will using Cleanser 3.8 help removing those spots?

    Regards,
    Florence

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    Hi Roger,

    I just finished using the horsehair brush to dislodge remaining surface soiling particulates.
    I also followed your advice and used a blunt bamboo skewer to remove surface stain.

    Here is how the dirtier side looks now.
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    The cleaner side:
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    The top view:
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    Still not able to remove some dark spots at the two ends of the handle

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    Do you think the Degreaser process need to be repeated or it's enough?

    Thank you again for your time.

    Regards,
    Florence
    Last edited by floflocat; 09-19-2013 at 09:24 PM.

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    >>>Still not able to remove some dark spots at the two ends of the handle

    From the last picture, this looks like the remaining finishes not removed continuing to the end of the handle (give a picture number for easy reference). You may need Stripper-2.3 instead. Picture shows abrasion to the skin as well that will need Adhesor-73 to restore the smoothness for repair after softening and strengthening the leather.

    >>>Do you think the Degreaser process need to be repeated or it's enough?
    There are three stages to the degreasing process and the third stage with Hydrator-3.3 should conclude it that ends the entire degreasing process.

    Coming sequence of steps should include:

    1. Fatliquor-5.0 - to soften and strength the leather.
    2. Wax Effect-8.6 – to replenish fashion effect (suggest NOT to be applied at this time).
    3. Adhesor-73 – to repair surface abrasion and smoothening the skin.
    4. AnilineTop-21G – to restore the finish.
    5. Protector-B+ to reduce friction rubs
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 09-20-2013 at 08:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    Picture Observation:
    Third last picture shows possible some dye transfer stain that will require Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0.
    The unknown brown marks other than Prep-4.4 may require specialty stain remover according to the Leather Problem Solving Guide
    Hi Roger,
    While I'm waiting for the Hydrator to dwell for 72 hours, I would like to work on cleaning the body of the bag.
    Can you give me detailed instruction on how to clean the dye transfer?

    If I want to give the bag a general overall cleaning, what product should I use and how to do it?

    Thanks again for your great help!
    Regards,
    Florence

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    >>>While I'm waiting for the Hydrator to dwell for 72 hours,

    Do you have pictures of how it is being dwelled?



    >>>I would like to work on cleaning the body of the bag.

    Stain removal comes first before general cleaning. For general cleaning depending on the soiling level, check out the level of soiling type and apply accordingly.


    >>>Can you give me detailed instruction on how to clean the dye transfer?

    From the Guide Stain Type, the second row shows the steps for dye transfer removal; do according to the recommended steps.


    >>>If I want to give the bag a general overall cleaning, what product should I use and how to do it?

    If the general overall cleaning is for Restorative Cleaning then it should be the same as dye transfer stain removal – Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0. The difference is the dwell time for Prep-4.4, remaining Clean-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 is the same.

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    Hi Roger,

    Here is a picture of how it's being dwelled:
    Name:  024.JPG
Views: 1689
Size:  1.92 MB

    Regards,
    Florence

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    Reasons why Hydrator-3.3 is used at this stage.


    The multi functional abilities include:

    b) To plumps, relaxes and separates crushed, shrunk and stick together fibrils for manipulating away-unwanted creases and wrinkles.
    c) To rectify alkaline overexposure areas by facilitating colloidal water movement to redistribute the leather constituents from surrounding areas.
    d) To activate the dormant dyestuff within the leather structure for color refreshing.
    e) To facilitates colloidal water movement within the inter-fibrillary spaces for wicking foreign soiling particulates to resurface.
    f) To stabilize, pH balance and charge the protein fiber below its iso-electric point (pI) ionic positive to hydrogen bond with the ionic negative fatliquor more effectively.
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 09-23-2013 at 09:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post

    If the general overall cleaning is for Restorative Cleaning then it should be the same as dye transfer stain removal – Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0. The difference is the dwell time for Prep-4.4, remaining Clean-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 is the same.
    Hi Roger,

    What is the dwell time for dye transfer stain removal?
    And what is the dwell time for Restorative Cleaning?

    Thanks.
    Florence

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post

    Reviving or Rejuvenating:
    Relaxing of the leather stiffness to rid of unwanted creases is accomplished with Hydrator-3.3 with stretching.
    Hi Roger,
    What does it means by "stretching" here? And how and when to do it?
    Regards,
    Florence

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,

    What is the dwell time for dye transfer stain removal?
    And what is the dwell time for Restorative Cleaning?

    Thanks.
    Florence

    >>>What is the dwell time for dye transfer stain removal?

    Dwell time for dye transfer may take up to 72hours with every 24 hours interval for inspection. The most effective technique for dye stain removal is by “reverse transferring” technique developed by Leather Doctor®. An open secret in which a paper towel is place skintight without airspace as an extension of the leather surface onto the shape of the stain. For aniline leathers, since coloring is also from dyes a test need to be done on hidden areas to check the strength of the dyestuff as well. In order not to have a distinct discoloration on weak aniline dyestuff if any. It is recommended that the surrounding entire areas be applied with Prep-4.4 as well feathering out from the stain areas.


    >>>And what is the dwell time for Restorative Cleaning?

    In such situation as describe above, the dwell time for restorative cleaning would be the same as the dye stain removal in one combination process. The difference is using a greater amount of products on the stain spots and a lesser amount that feathers and thins out to the rest of the general areas as restorative cleaning.


    This innovative “reverse transferring” technique is to allow the suspended stain to be instantaneously absorbed by a more absorbent material like the paper towel to be easily peeled off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,
    What does it means by "stretching" here? And how and when to do it?
    Regards,
    Florence

    "Stretching" is done while the leather is limp or softened up at the end of dwell time. Unnatural creases if any is stretch cross-wise to minimize the unwanted creases. Hydrating one of its purposes is to precondition the leather structure to facilitate the replenishing of diminishing fatliquor (fat, oil and water) more efficiently. Fat plumps the leather structure for fullness, oil lubricates the interconnecting fibrils with smoothness and strength and the water leaves to impart air spaces for leather natural transpiration characteristic.

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    Hi Roger,
    Thank you very much for the helpful advice.
    I tried to spot clean a yellowish stain last night with Prep=>Cleanse=>Rinse and the stain was removed nicely!
    While I was applying the product, I tried to separate the leather piece apart from the bag lining which is black in color because I was scared that if the product bleed to the black lining, the dye from the lining may stain the leather.
    Do you think this will happen or I'm just too cautious?
    If this is possible, it will be very hard for me to apply the products to the whole bag.

    Please advice.

    Regards,
    Florence

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    Please show a close up picture of the lining material.

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    Before:
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1663
Size:  1.84 MB
    After:
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1570
Size:  2.24 MB

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    Lining Material?

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    I don't have the bag with me now. I will post a picture of the lining material later.
    Regards,
    Florence

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    Here's a picture of the lining
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1607
Size:  1.86 MB

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    I peeled off the tissue paper after the handle is dried. The tissue paper is sticky to the handle.
    Here is a picture of the handle. It looks dirtier than before. Is it normal? What should I do nexf?
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1543
Size:  1.79 MB
    Thank you for your help.
    Florence

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,
    Thank you very much for the helpful advice.
    I tried to spot clean a yellowish stain last night with Prep=>Cleanse=>Rinse and the stain was removed nicely!
    While I was applying the product, I tried to separate the leather piece apart from the bag lining which is black in color because I was scared that if the product bleed to the black lining, the dye from the lining may stain the leather.
    Do you think this will happen or I'm just too cautious?
    If this is possible, it will be very hard for me to apply the products to the whole bag.

    Please advice.

    Regards,
    Florence
    It is very unlikely that your fear will materialize.

    The lining material is identified as cotton derived, so it is a natural fiber.
    Just like jeans, it has more possibility to bleed than a synthetic material.
    However, when using products that are on the acidic side of the pH scale it will strengthen the bond between the fiber and the dyestuff. Acidifier-2.0 when spray over will set the dyestuff stronger. DyeFix-99 is design to fix dyestuff from bleeding as well.

    The lining is recommended to be clean first, use Clean-3.8 and do a colorfast test by letting it saturate the fiber and press with a cotton white towel 5 to 10 minutes later. If the color is stable follow cleaning the entire bag with Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0.

    For hygiene purpose to sterilize the lining, d’Bacteria-3.7 is used.

    Notice that all these product suffix numbers are actually their pH value.

    Acidic products sets the dyestuff, while alkaline (pH above 7) will cause dye bleeding.

    Name:  a20792012d352b65fbd20a_s.jpg
Views: 1367
Size:  24.0 KB
    Leather Doctor DyeFix-99

    Leather Doctor® DyeFix-99 is a waterbased dye fix for nubuck and suede to control and abate crocking. Crocking is greatly reduced or eliminated with good fixing. It improves wet rub fastness and reduces bleeding. It maintains its natural feel and nappy “finger writing effect”.



    Name:  a20791812d021a6b35ee4a_s.jpg
Views: 1390
Size:  24.6 KB
    Leather Doctor d'Bacteria-3.7
    Leather Doctor® d’Bacteria-3.7 is a waterbased pH 3.7 biodegradable, odorless and colorless leather-safe bactericide. It is design for disinfecting and controlling pungent odor from bacteria causing activities after decontamination cleaning. This universal bactericide is for all leather types including pigmented, aniline, vachetta, nubuck, suede, hair-on-hide and woolskin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    I peeled off the tissue paper after the handle is dried. The tissue paper is sticky to the handle.
    It looks dirtier than before. Is it normal? What should I do nexf?
    Thank you for your help.
    Florence

    >>>It looks dirtier than before. Is it normal?

    This is expected when rinsing alone does not moves the suspended soiling to resurface, thus hydrating has flush out the remaining.
    e) To facilitates colloidal water movement within the inter-fibrillary spaces for wicking foreign soiling particulates to resurface.


    >>>What should I do next?

    These surface soiling is erase with Eraser-4 in combination with horsehair Brush-1 into the pores and creases.

    When surface soiling is completely removed, lightly spray Hydrator-3.3 to check for surface tension and it is ready to replenish fat liquor.

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    Hi Roger,

    Thank you for your replies and helpful advices.

    I already tried brushing the handle with horsehair brush in an attempt to brush off the dirt but it didn't help a lot.
    Also, there's no dirt coming off on the tissue paper when I peeled the paper off.

    I don't have the Eraser-4. Would there be an alternative method to get those dirt off? Would doing one more degreasing help?

    You also mentioned checking for surface tension. What does it mean and how to do it?
    Thank you in advance.

    Regards,
    Florence

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    >>>I already tried brushing the handle with horsehair brush in an attempt to brush off the dirt but it didn't help a lot.

    Apply Hydrator-3.3 let it dwell a while and extract with a terry towel may help.


    >>>Also, there's no dirt coming off on the tissue paper when I peeled the paper off.

    An overlook aspect of using tissue paper is the failure to have a good surface contact, thus the soiling has no chance to wick through the paper and still remain on the leather surface.


    >>>I don't have the Eraser-4. Would there be an alternative method to get those dirt off?

    From practice Eraser-4 works best to dislodge surface soiling (this subject is covered from previous answers).


    >>>Would doing one more degreasing help?

    Hydrating preferred at this stage.


    >>>You also mentioned checking for surface tension. What does it mean and how to do it?

    Spray Hydrator-3.3 on any surface to gives an even darkening effect, those lightening areas may be due to surface tension, continue spraying and agitate with horsehair brush will break the surface tension. It is then ready or preconditioned to accept Fatliquor-5.0 for an even absorption for a more pleasant even appearance when dry. Faliquoring with its fat and oil will produce a deeper effect, so surface tension check is to avoid blotchiness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    Apply Hydrator-3.3 let it dwell a while and extract with a terry towel may help.
    How long of dwell time would be desirable?

    Do I need to saturate the leather until moisture oozing out this time?

    Do I need to do the tissue paper technique this time?

    Thank you Roger.

    Florence

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    >>>How long of dwell time would be desirable?

    Surface cleaning does not require long dwell time; immediately when the leather is saturate, start agitating with horsehair brush to dislodge surface soiling with immediate soil extraction. The surface cleaning is repeated with reapplication of Hydrator-3.3 > Brushing > Extraction.


    >>>Do I need to saturate the leather until moisture oozing out this time?

    Not necessary for surface cleaning.


    >>>Do I need to do the tissue paper technique this time?

    Not necessary for surface cleaning.

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    Thank you Roger for your answers.

    I cleaned some stain on the Balenciaga bag last night with Prep=>Cleanse=>Rinse.
    This morning I checked on it. The stain was satisfactorily gone. However the glossy touch was gone.
    What should I do next? Should I apply the Fatliquor?

    Thank you.
    Florence

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    Pictures please!

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    This is before:
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1476
Size:  748.5 KB

    This is after: the picture may not show the hand feel. But it feels dry and matte looking.
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1541
Size:  1.93 MB

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    >>>This is after: the picture may not show the hand feel. But it feels dry and matte looking.
    The subsequent rejuvenating process with Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Wax Effect-8.6 > Protector-D+/D with optional Adhesor-73 > AnilineTop-21G will restore the extra sheen back to the original finishes.


    >>>What should I do next?
    The entire bag should be clean up to the same condition “feels dry and matte looking”.


    >>>Should I apply the Fatliquor?
    Apply Fatliquor-5.0 after Hydrator-3.3. Hydrator-3.3 preconditions the leather structure to receive the Fatliquor-5.0 more efficiently.
    a), b), c) & f) below applies.

    a) to check for surface tension for an even appearance free from blotchiness prior to fatliquor replenishing.
    b) To plumps, relaxes and separates crushed, shrunk and stick together fibrils for manipulating away-unwanted creases and wrinkles.
    c) To rectify alkaline overexposure areas by facilitating colloidal water movement to redistribute the leather constituents from surrounding areas.
    d) To activate the dormant dyestuff within the leather structure for color refreshing.
    e) To facilitates colloidal water movement within the inter-fibrillary spaces for wicking foreign soiling particulates to resurface.
    f) To stabilize, pH balance and charge the protein fiber below its iso-electric point (pI) ionic positive to hydrogen bond with the ionic negative fatliquor more effectively. This universal Hydrator-3.3 is for all leather types including pigmented, aniline, vachetta, nubuck, suede, hair-on-hide and woolskin.
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 09-27-2013 at 09:22 AM.

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    Hi Roger,

    I did Prep=>Cleanse=>Rinse on the Rebecca Minkoff Nikki bag and here's the result:

    It looks clean and nice from far:
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 1551
Size:  690.9 KB

    Closeup look - some areas are more scaly, rough and dry than the other:
    Name:  photo_1.jpg
Views: 1479
Size:  840.9 KB

    Closeup look 2 - some areas has discoloration, looking more yellowish:
    Name:  photo_2.jpg
Views: 1501
Size:  664.5 KB

    The areas with discoloration are also the areas with roughness and dryness.

    Now should I apply the Hydrator? If yes, how to apply it? How much should I use? Do I need to plastic wrap on it and how long will be the dwelling time?

    Thank you Roger for your help.

    Florence

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    And I did some cleaning work on the handle of the Balenciaga and here's how it looks now:

    Side 1:
    Name:  photo copy.jpg
Views: 1473
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    Side 2:
    Name:  photo_1 copy.jpg
Views: 1507
Size:  529.4 KB

    Do I still need to repeat the scraping of the dirt process to get it absolutely clean or should I stop here?

    What should I do next?

    Thank you.
    Florence

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    >>>Do I still need to repeat the scraping of the dirt process to get it absolutely clean or should I stop here?

    The obvious choice if possible is to get it absolutely clean; unless it is certain that it has reach the point of diminishing return.

    Stretching it may also lighten up the appearance, besides using Eraser-4 and Brush-1.

    Side 1 has worn and surface damages that contribute to the poor appearance as well.

    >>>What should I do next?

    Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    unless it is certain that it has reach the point of diminishing return.
    What does "diminishing return" means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    Stretching it may also lighten up the appearance
    When I do the stretching, do I need to apply Hydrator?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Koh View Post
    Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0
    I already applied Hydrator-3.3 before brushing off the dirt. What do I do with Hydrator-3.3 this time?

    Thank you Roger again for your help.

    Florence

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,

    I did Prep=>Cleanse=>Rinse on the Rebecca Minkoff Nikki bag and here's the result:

    It looks clean and nice from far:
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 1551
Size:  690.9 KB

    Closeup look - some areas are more scaly, rough and dry than the other:
    Name:  photo_1.jpg
Views: 1479
Size:  840.9 KB

    Closeup look 2 - some areas has discoloration, looking more yellowish:
    Name:  photo_2.jpg
Views: 1501
Size:  664.5 KB

    The areas with discoloration are also the areas with roughness and dryness.

    Now should I apply the Hydrator? If yes, how to apply it? How much should I use? Do I need to plastic wrap on it and how long will be the dwelling time?

    Thank you Roger for your help.

    Florence
    Hi Roger,
    Can you help me on this please?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    What does "diminishing return" means?



    When I do the stretching, do I need to apply Hydrator?


    I already applied Hydrator-3.3 before brushing off the dirt. What do I do with Hydrator-3.3 this time?

    Thank you Roger again for your help.

    Florence


    >>> What does "diminishing return" means?

    It means that the maximum result may have reach and any more cleaning may still produce the same result.


    >>> When I do the stretching, do I need to apply Hydrator?

    Stretching or massaging can be done in the dry state as well to lighten up the appearance. Dry stretching prior to erasing or brushing will also produce a better result as the creases and pores are open up.


    >>> I already applied Hydrator-3.3 before brushing off the dirt. What do I do with Hydrator-3.3 this time?

    One of Hydrator-3.3 function this time is:
    a) to check for surface tension for an even appearance free from blotchiness prior to fatliquor replenishing.

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    Hi Roger,
    I'm ready to use Fatliquor on the handle.
    After reading the instruction on the website, I have a few questions regarding the instruction:


    (2. Repeat application each time water contents evaporate until fully saturated. )
    How to know when water contents evaporate and how to know when it's fully saturated?

    (3. Drive remaining surface remnants free of milky fat and oil until it turns clear with Hydrator-3.3. )
    What does this means?

    Thank you in advance.
    Florence

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    >>> (2. Repeat application each time water contents evaporate until fully saturated. )

    How to know when water contents evaporate and how to know when it's fully saturated?
    When fully saturated no more fatliquor will be absorbed by the leather as the leather swell.
    As water contents evaporates at interval of 1 to 4 hours, leather becomes absorbent to fatliquor again when further applied. The absorbent rate will slowly decline at each application by comparative observation.


    >>> (3. Drive remaining surface remnants free of milky fat and oil until it turns clear with Hydrator-3.3. )
    What does this means?

    In general, especially those leathers that have a resisting color and top coating especially the heavier pigmented type, strays may remain on the surface. This is predictable when Hydrator-3.3 preconditioning does not produce an even darkening effect. In such situation the dried up fatliquor residue-shining effect becomes noticeable. Fatliquor is meant for the leather internal structure to plums the leather and lubricating it. It is useless to be remaining on the surface that might interfere with other surface process, thus need Hydrator-3.3 to drive it in or wipe off. Hydrator-3.3 with a pH of 3.3 below the leather pH neutral (averages pH 4), or isoelectric point or pI will further charge or protonate the amphoteric protein fiber ionic more positive thus increases or strengthen the ionic attraction between the ionic positive (+ve) fiber with the ionic negative (-ve) fatliquor by hydrogen bonding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floflocat View Post
    Hi Roger,
    Can you help me on this please?

    This thread is getting too long, this Nikki bag is transfer to a new thread - http://www.leathercleaningrestoratio...koff-Nikki-Bag

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant
    www.LeatherDoctor.com

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    Hi Roger,

    I applied the Fatliquor. The leather soften a lot and darken. And no milky residual appeared. I'm not sure if it's totally dried already.(I've waited it to dry for over 24 hours) Usually how long does it take for the drying process to complete?

    It doesn't seems that the handle can be as clean as I wish. So I'm planning to redye the whole bag. However I would still like to complete the whole process. I would like to apply the Wax effect. I have a few questions regarding the instructions though:

    (1. Warm up, shake well, spread and saturate with foam brush into the leather structure evenly.)
    How do I warm up the Wax effect?

    (3. Activate cloudy residual wax with a heat blower or hair dryer to bring out the natural waxy sheen.)
    Should the hair dryer be on HIGH or LOW?

    Thank you very much Roger.

    Florence

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    >>> I applied the Fatliquor. The leather soften a lot and darken. And no milky residual appeared. I'm not sure if it's totally dried already.(I've waited it to dry for over 24 hours) Usually how long does it take for the drying process to complete?

    Drying will only occurs when the water from the leather evaporates into the surrounding air. Duration of drying will depends on surrounding factors like temperature, air-circulation, relative humidity and amount of water in the air. Dry time will depends on the seasons of the year as well as from region to region. The natural environment of Florida will take a longer time to dry than Arizona is an example.

    When leather is totally dry, that is feels dry with body contact it still have moisture content up to average 14% (tannery standard). These average 14% is make up of additional fatliquor replenished (mainly the fat and oil that hydrogen bonds with the protein fiber while the free water evaporates during the drying process that imparts leather breathability for natural transpiration) into the leather structure; fatliquor being a volatile organic compound will eventually transform into gases and evaporates into thin air. That’s why all leather will become dry in the passage of time and will need periodic replenishing to keep it soft and strong from drying and cracking.


    >>> It doesn't seem that the handle can be as clean as I wish. So I'm planning to redye the whole bag. However I would still like to complete the whole process. I would like to apply the Wax effect. I have a few questions regarding the instructions though:

    Note:
    Fashion pull-up effect with either oil or wax, more so with oil, is often referred to as “Crazy Horse”.
    Depends on personal taste, some likes it and some hates it.
    It is difficult to determine how it will response until it is too late for immediate revert, so it is prudent to first test at hidden areas.

    Tips:
    Test out the Wax Effect-8.6 on hidden areas first to see how it response.
    Wax Effect-8.6 on general areas of the bag is perfectly fine.
    However, it may not response well on the already surface damaged handle.
    Surface rough-up skin repair is done with Adhesor-73 and may produce a darkening effect as well.
    Wax Effect-8.6 at this point to the skin damaged areas will not correct the surface damages but may interfere with Adhesor-73 application.
    Suggest not applying Wax Effect-8.6 to the handle at all, so that the factors that influence the outcome will be simpler to handle, otherwise it will become complex.
    Recommended that the handle is repair with Adhesor-73 and Topcoat with matching luster as separate from the body.
    With repairs the surface appearance may deviate from the other parts of the bag and it is practically all right to treat it as leather “trims”.


    >>> How do I warm up the Wax effect?

    Expose to sunlight to warm up is one way. Another is warming up in room temperature above 21 degrees Celsius. Warming up to higher temperature up to 50 degrees will increase the rate of penetration.


    >>> Should the hair dryer be on HIGH or LOW?

    High.



    Roger Koh
    Leather Care Consultant
    www.LeatherDoctor.com
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 10-03-2013 at 01:03 PM.

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