Printable View
Hi,
The surface of a vintage Chanel is slightly dull to the wax that I applied. (The photos make it look shinier than it actually is.) Do I need to rub off some of the wax and apply a top coat to restore the smooth buttery look?
Also, the surface underneath the flap has some caved in portions, and the back pocket has some creases. Is it possible to “buff out” the creases by hydrating?
Thank you!
Attachment 10215Attachment 10216Attachment 10217
>>> The surface of a vintage Chanel is slightly dull to the wax that I applied. (The photos make it look shinier than it actually is.) Do I need to rub off some of the wax and apply a top coat to restore the smooth buttery look?
To remove the wax will require Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0/Rinse-3.0.
AnilineTop-76G will bring back the original gloss.
Soft buttery feel is accomplished with LeatherScentedProtector-B+ or Protector-B without the leather scent.
>>> Also, the surface underneath the flap has some caved in portions, and the back pocket has some creases. Is it possible to “buff out” the creases by hydrating?
Hydrator-3.3 helps to relax and stretch back the creases, it is the replenishing of Fatliquor-5.0 that will plump up the leather structure with fat and the oil then makes the leather supple.
See this Aniline leather problem-solvingAttachment 10220 matrix
Attachment 10221
Roger Koh
Leather, Skin, Hair, Eye & Acne Care System Formulator
Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor / Coach
web: www.leatherdoctor.com
forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
email: [email protected]
Hi Roger,
I’ve received my kit. Do you have videos on how to remove the wax using Degreaser? I’ve applied Degreaser 3 times to a diamond (upper area of each photo) but it appears even duller than the waxed diamonds (lower). Do I need to keep applying until I see the original aniline layer, or will Degreaser remove the original aniline layer?
Do I need to use Rinse after each Degreaser application?
I note that the bottle says to warm up and shake up before use. Could I use a small garment steamer to briefly steam the leather and Degreaser before application? Should I steam before or after?
Also, can I replace the steaming with the Hydrator/Rinse step?
Thanks!
Attachment 10242Attachment 10243
Or is it possible that the Degreaser is quite strong and removed both the wax and shine together? Should I dilute it or wipe it away very quickly?
Also, since the concentrates need to be diluted with distilled water. Do you mean the distilled drinking water obtainable from the supermarket or laboratory-grade distilled water?
The instructions are there, but videos would be more helpful to see the technique required for each step.
>>> Or is it possible that the Degreaser is quite strong and removed both the wax and shine together?
Degreaser-2.2 is formulated to remove body oil and grease.
It is not a wax remover per se, so may not be as effective.
It will not be able to remove the gloss topcoat as well.
To remove the gloss topcoat and the aniline finishes will need the Stripper-2.3 > Rinse-3.0 system.
Perhaps when Stripper-2.3 is diluted with distilled water may remove the unwanted wax and keep the gloss topcoat and finishes. And you are responsible for your own decision that any weakens finishing may need refinishing again.
Leather Doctor® Degreaser-2.2 is a pH 2.2 leather-safe water-based degreaser with dye bleeding control. It is formulated for degreasing leather of penetrated oil, grease, and sweat stains from skin, and hair contact, especially the headrest and armrest of upholstery, collar, and cuffs of the garment, handles of the bag including the steering wheel. It works best in conjunction with Rinse-3.0 to rinse surface soiling or Acidifier-2.0 for penetrated soiling. Hydrator-3.3 deep structural saturation further helps in releasing and moving suspended soiling by squeezing over a highly absorbent cotton towel until the towel shows clean. The remaining suspended soiling is further moved by saturation and allows wicking by reverse-transfer through tight surface contact with Towel-5. To remove penetrated soiling completely off the surface will require the three steps of penetration, suspension, and extraction by Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system. This universal leather-safe degreaser is for all leather types including the varieties of pigmented, aniline, vachetta, nubuck, and suede.
A- Dry Soil Removal with Brush-1 & Eraser-4 for leather, Brush-2 & Eraser-4 for nubuck, and Brush-3 & Eraser-5 for suede: A1- Brush with leather Brush-1/2/3. A2- Erase with leather Eraser-4/5. Then, vacuum nubuck and suede of loose soiling accordingly prior to degreasing.
B- Degreasing with Degreaser-2.2: B1- Shake Degreaser-2.2 until it gels, saturate to reach penetrated soiling with appropriate above mentioned Brushes and Erasers and extract with dry terry cotton towel until towel shows clean. B2- Re-apply and allow the dwelling 5 to 60 minutes or before it dries for a complete soiling suspension to occur and towel extract until it shows clean. B3- Immediately proceed to C(a) or C(b) for surface rinsing.
C1- Surface Rinsing with Rinse-3.0: C1:1- Spray Rinse-3.0 and use dry terry cotton towel to extract until towel shows clean, let dry and proceed to F. C1:2 - To reduce tackiness due to prior alkaline over-exposure proceed to use Acidifier-2.0 C2.
C2- Structural Rinsing with Acidifier-2.0: C2:1- Spray Acidifier-2.0 to saturate penetrated soiling and use dry terry cotton towel to extract until towel shows clean, let dry, and proceed to F or D for extra structural wet soil removal.
D - Extra Structural Wet Soil Removal with Hydrator-3.3: D1- Spray Hydrator-3.3 to again saturate penetrated soiling and use dry terry cotton towel to extract until towel shows clean. D2- Extra extraction is by repeat saturation and indirect squeezing through a dry towel with an appropriate spatula until the towel shows clean and let natural dry to inspect for satisfaction or proceed to E- Structural soil reverse-transfer technique.
E- Structural Soil Reverse-Transfer Technique with Towel-5: E1- The leather structure is again saturated and Towel-T5 is wet-stretch out with Brush-1 void of air space and let dry naturally. E2- When it is crispy dry peel off Towel-5. E3- Proceed to dry soil removal (F).
F- Dry Soil Removal with Brush-1 and Eraser-4: F1- Lightly stretch the leather to open up the pores. F2- Brush with leather Brush-1. F3- Erase with leather Eraser-4. F4- Inspect for satisfaction, otherwise repeat or proceed to other revealed class of stain removal system.
When soiling and stains are removed to satisfaction, proceed to leather rejuvenation with Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system.
Tips:
Optimum fatliquor (fat and oil) moisture content in dry healthy leathers is up to an average14% when read with a leather moisture meter or an equivalent. Existing cracks magnifies when fatliquor moisture content falls below 7% level when dry for most leather and especially for the naked vegetable-tanned leathers popularly known as Vachetta.
Leather by nature is both hydrophilic and oleophilic and easily absorbs body contact oil, grease, and sweat. Penetrated and prolong soiling contamination that has high sweat content tends to denature the leather that manifests as stickiness, with a dye-bleeding problem. Leather-safe degreasing with charging the protein fiber ionic positive is the science and logic approach to effective degreasing. In addition to a deep non-hazardous and non-toxic degreasing, the leather is reverted from denaturing into rawhide. Degreasing at a low pH of 2.2 below the average iso-electric point (pI) of leather revitalizes the ionic attraction. The amphoteric protein fiber returns to its ionic positive attraction towards the negative leather constituents that include the tanning agent, dyestuff, and fatliquor. When such contamination is thereafter rinsed with Acidifier-2.0, the leather returns to a healthy squeak with reducing dye bleeding in a leather-safe water-based system. Moreover, the leather is softer when dry without leaching out of its original fat and oil as associated with a dry solvent system. Visit www.LeatherCleaningRestorationForum.com for a detailed discussion prior to use.
>>> Also, since the concentrates need to be diluted with distilled water. Do you mean the distilled drinking water obtainable from the supermarket or laboratory-grade distilled water?
Distilled water sold in supermarkets or any steam condensed water even from a dehumidifier or air conditioning condensed water that is clean will do.
>>>The instructions are there, but videos would be more helpful to see the technique required for each step.
On-time coaching is available to help you finish your project with no mistake.
Hi Roger,Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
Is Degreaser cannot be used to remove wax. Which product do you recommend to remove it? I’m now confused.
Thank you for the confirmation. I think on-time coaching would be very difficult due to the time differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
Also, I think the degreaser is quite strong. As shown in the photos above, it caused 1 diamond to be quite dull and slightly rough. Although the instructions ask to leave for 10 or 30 mins before it dries, the degreaser actually dried within 1-3 seconds. It is absorbed into the leather after 3 seconds. Is that normal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
>>> Is Degreaser cannot be used to remove wax. Which product do you recommend to remove it? I’m now confused.
Do this test yourself, apply whatever wax you have on a piece of scrap leather and test it out.
I would only know the answer when I test it out.
I will test the complete system, not just the Degreaser-2.2.
>>> Also, I think the degreaser is quite strong. As shown in the photos above, it caused 1 diamond to be quite dull and slightly rough. Although the instructions ask to leave for 10 or 30 mins before it dries, the degreaser actually dried within 1-3 seconds. It is absorbed into the leather after 3 seconds. Is that normal?
Yes, even if you test with water on a piece of leather you would observe that some leather absorbed instantly and some leather does not absorb at all. The behaviour is the leather and not the Degreaser-2.2
So, in this case, you continue with the Rinse to remove the unwanted Degreaser-2.2 after it has worked.
>>> it caused 1 diamond to be quite dull and slightly rough.
The roughness is due to the original fatliquor is also removed, that is why the degreasing process is comprised of Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0/Rinse-3.0 > Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3.
When you stop at Degreaser-2.2 and leave the leather to dry it may be rough stiff and may also crack because you also have removed the original "Fatliquor" (fat and oil).
Sorry I don’t have a piece of scrap lambskin, so it won’t be able to predict how the lambskin would behave. That’s why I tested on a diamond and uploaded the photo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
Ok! How do I improve penetration of the hydrator? Should I warm it up? I don’t intend to let the bag soak for more than 3 hours each time in case of mold. I don’t mind doing shorter and more rounds of hydrator and fat liquor. Also, can I soak the chain strap with it too? It won’t damage the hardware right? Should I wrap the chain in paper towels?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
>>> Ok! How do I improve penetration of the hydrator?
Just apply and let the leather soak it up.
>>> Should I warm it up?
NO! Unless the content is frozen.
>>> Also, can I soak the chain strap with it too?
Yes.
>>> It won’t damage the hardware right?
No.
>>> Should I wrap the chain in paper towels?
What is the reason?
To prevent the chain from marking on the leather as it soaksQuote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
>>> To prevent the chain from marking on the leather as it soaks
Done it myself, never happens with any stain marking.
So, back to the dull diamond, if I proceed to hydrator and fatliquor, can this restore the shiny surface?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
>>> So, back to the dull diamond, if I proceed to hydrator and fatliquor, can this restore the shiny surface?
No!
Only with AnilineTop-76G
Now this sounds strange: Degreaser isn’t supposed to remove the original top coat. So the top coat should still be present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
Also, if I apply the new top coat to this diamond, it would look shinier than the rest. Since Degreaser isn’t supposed to remove the wax either, I have not applied more to the rest of the bag. Using the eraser also doesn’t seem to remove the wax. Will applying hydrator and fatliquor restore the shine to the bag?
>>> Now this sounds strange: Degreaser isn’t supposed to remove the original top coat. So the top coat should still be present.
Degreaser-2.2 does not remove the original topcoat unless the original topcoat is already weakened and any cleaning also removes it.
>>> Also, if I apply the new top coat to this diamond, it would look shinier than the rest.
It may be duller and it may be shinier. The practice is the surface is best to have uniform appearance. As it is very difficult to match differences in appearance.
>>> Since Degreaser isn’t supposed to remove the wax either, I have not applied more to the rest of the bag. Using the eraser also doesn’t seem to remove the wax.
Degreaser-2.2 system is not developed to remove wax, but it is also quite possible to remove to a certain degree, depending on the weakness of the wax. Moreover, the holistic degreasing system comprises of Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0/Rinse-3.0 > Hydrator-3.3 > fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3. Eraser-4 and horsehair brush is also tools needed to complete the wax removal. The answer is not YES or NO, it is between the yes and no. Better to explain other than written words, in this case.
>>> Will applying hydrator and fatliquor restore the shine to the bag?
No!
I recommend that you need on-time coaching . . .
What I don’t understand is that you have recommended Degreaser to remove wax at the first post. So that is what I bought. Now Degreaser doesn’t remove the wax, and perhaps nothing in the kit will either. So what can I use to remove the wax? That is the question all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
Yesterday you suggested a diluted stripper may be able to remove the wax. I’m not sure it’s a good idea. Like I mentioned, it’s a vintage bag (different from the other post). And I don’t want to damage it.
Roger, to be clear, these are 2 different bags with 2 different issues. Do not mix them up!Quote:
Originally Posted by baglover
>>> What I don’t understand is that you have recommended Degreaser to remove wax at the first post. So that is what I bought. Now Degreaser doesn’t remove the wax, and perhaps nothing in the kit will either. So what can I use to remove the wax? That is the question all along.
Have you taken a look at the Matrix?
Did you see any specific about wax removal?
I sure I can remove most wax with Degreaser-2.2 but I do not know if you are a first-time (you will need some practice putting the wax you have and try removing it). If the Degreaser-2.2 system does not remove the wax, you will be happy because it will not cause any damages to the original finishes.
>>> Roger, to be clear, these are 2 different bags with 2 different issues. Do not mix them up!
Most probably I got it mixed up, I just answer your questions.
>>> Yesterday you suggested a diluted stripper may be able to remove the wax. I’m not sure it’s a good idea. Like I mentioned, it’s a vintage bag (different from the other post). And I don’t want to damage it.
It is not a good idea for the novice, it is very risky if you do not understand the system.
When you used Stripper-2.3, you must be prepared to refinished the damaged finishes.
This is why there are 2 posts under different headings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
But now the degreaser seems to have damaged the original finish after 3 applications because the surface feels rough and looks dull. You mentioned that the dullness may be caused by loss of fatliquor, but now say fatliquor may not restore the shine (remove dullness). I don’t want to do further without any clear guidance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
As I mentioned before, video is not possible due to time differences. I prefer to work on the bag during daytime where I can see the surface colour and shine easily.
Degreaser-22 system comprises Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquour-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 in a continuous wet system. (Please do clarify if you understand this wet system otherwise if you stop at Degreaser-2.2 it is right what you will get).
>>> You mentioned that the dullness may be caused by loss of fatliquor
Dullness is the lack of original gloss and NOT the loss of fatliquor. You are suppose to remove any residue that remains with Hydrator-3.3 so Fatliquor-5.0 is below the surface.
>>> As I mentioned before, video is not possible due to time differences. I prefer to work on the bag during daytime where I can see the surface colour and shine easily.
Your 9AM is my 5PM and I am Ok to work into the night.
The bag looks much better today. The colour is more even, and the feel is soft and supple. Thanks Roger!
How should I treat the corners? They are probably worn and thus dull. No amount of fatliquor seems to help.
Attachment 10272Attachment 10273
>>> They are probably worn
Worn will need repairs
>>> and thus dull
Dull will need to gloss up with AnilineTop-76G
What kind of repairs are you referring to for the corners? There is only surface wear, not deep.
>>> What kind of repairs are you referring to for the corners? There is only surface wear, not deep.
Without the bag in front of me or an on-time video, I would not be able to give you a straight answer.
If it has been repaired before, then the repair has to be undone and redo with methods that produce the best result.
If untouched then a surface can be smoothened with Bond-3D.
My bags are all untouched. I don’t think bond is necessary because it’s very superficial rubbing, the leather is largely intact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Koh
You make the final decision on what is best to achieve the best result.