I have a bad belt dye stain on my Audi seat; another product made it worse; can I still save my leather?

Hi Roger,

I see you've been on Autopia but now I see your e-mail and figured this is the best way to contact you.

I came across your products too late

I have a bad belt dye stain on my Audi seat. As you can see from the photos, another product made it worse. Can I still save my leather? I saw David's write up from last summer but I think this is more severe. If you can help me out, let me know. It looks like your online store is closed.

Thanks, B…

Thanks for your reply Roger.

I need an evaluation before knowing what to get.

Here're the photos of the seats…

You can see how Leather Master made the stain worse.

Please let me know if you can see everything. I've looked closely and the coating of the leather surface looks intact, it's just stained from the black belt and the stain has darkened and expanded.


See again carefully, picture #3 looks more like the finishes is completely removed…do you think so?

I'm looking at the finish now. I'm not familar with what a removed finish would look like The texture and feel is the same but the spot is black. If the black can't be removed i will need a dye.


#1
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...oh/Bill1-3.jpg

#2
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...oh/Bill2-3.jpg

#3
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...oh/Bill3-3.jpg

To confirm that the finished is removed; do a testing with distilled / tap water on a dampen cotton-pad / tissue-paper; place on both the mentioned spot and one on the surrounding area; cling wrapped it to hold onto this verticle panel for 5 - 15 minutes.

This test will show the difference in absorbency between the two test spots. Please let us know your findings and we can go from there how best it’s to be restored.

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Hi Roger. Thanks for posting this. I can reply on the forum here now.

I conducted the test with the tissue paper and the water. Both samples of wetted paper look the same. One isn’t drier than the other, nor has the amount of wetness reduced on one compared to the other.The dark spot we see in the photo and another uneffected spot feel the same after waiting 15 minutes. One isn’t wetter than the other. I assume that means they still both absorb water equally and if so, the dark spot still has the coating intact?

If this is so, I’m wondering if the Leather Master product spread and amplified the belt stain and hopefully, it can still be removed? If that’s wishful thinking, what products would I need to redye?

This test you have just done is not positive to determine the lost of the leather finish.

Try another test; this time uses a black or dark material absorbent towel/cloth that does not bleed with the product as seen in picture #2. Rub the damp towel/cloth at the edge of the dark mark and see if you can see the finish transfer to the towel/cloth.

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Koh

Rub the damp towel/cloth at the edge of the dark mark and see if you can see the finish transfer to the towel/cloth.

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Do you mean if I use a dark colored towel and the Leather Master product, I should see the platinum color of the leather transfer over and be visisible on the cloth?

When I originally applied the Leather Master to attempt to remove the stain, I used a white cloth and I did see dark-colored transfer. I thought this was the stain lifting but then you see the results. Perhaps that was the stain and platinum color of the leather already lifting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill D

Do you mean if I use a dark colored towel and the Leather Master product, I should see the platinum color of the leather transfer over and be visisible on the cloth?

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Yes!



Roger Koh
[email protected]

Roger,

I used the Leather Master on two dark colored cloths and see no platinum color transfer from my seat. If by any chance your cleaner product can improve this, I'm going to be knock my socks off amazed.

Where should we go from here? Thanks again!

I saw the tire mark thread on Autopia and I'm wondering hopefully, possibly part of my solution might also involve the leather bleach?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill D

Roger,

I used the Leather Master on two dark colored cloths and see no platinum color transfer from my seat. If by any chance your cleaner product can improve this, I'm going to be knock my socks off amazed.

Where should we go from here? Thanks again!

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Does you cleaning increases the size of the darker areas?

No.

At this point could you please recommend a product and send me the details on how to purchase it? Thanks.

The general sequence of steps to solve your problem is recommended as follows:

1] To match up the color is the toughest among all leather refinishing job scope (even for the professional) unless it is the straight standard color black. The existing color could be a combination of majority White with Black as shading and a bit of Ochre as hue. So may be a three color combination from the Pigment Micro-54 system picture below…

2] Topcoat plays a part in the final luster as well, with Satin that gives more depth and Matte shallower; however the topcoat has to be match to the original maybe with a mix of both.

3] Once you get the color and luster right on test; you may proceed to remove the remaining panel of its original finish.

4] Cleaner-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 is recommended to follow and if the panel is absorbent you may want to rejuvenate the leather structure as well with Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0; otherwise you have an option to skip this rejuvenation process.

5] Adhesion coating is to ensure adhesion with Adhesor-73

6] Color coating with Thickener-48 as the flow controller

7] Top coating

8] Non-stick non-resistant protector

We shall go further into the individual steps when you have the products at hand; especially how you can derive to match the color in the shortest time with a color formula for future references.

The products you may need are as follows – the price list is email to you for your purchase through a PayPal invoice.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...-Pigment12.jpg
Semi-Aniline Leather Coloring System (12)

Leather Doctor® Pigment Micro-54
It’s micro-pigment for semi-aniline leathers.
It's an aqueous soft compact resin blend high performance pigment color; strong against UV light than standard pigment.
Standard colors available in Black-512, White-505, Tan-586, Ochre-584, Maroon-502, Yellow-526, Orange-504, Red-554 and Blue-540.
Instruction:
1] Prep clean - use Prep-7.7 follows by Cleaner-3.8 then Rinse-3.0.
2] Leather rejuvenation – use Hydrator-3.3 follows with Fatliquor-5.0.
3] Strengthen weak and worn areas - use Impregnator-26
4] Ensure adhesion - use Adhesor-73.
5] Control flow and color stability - use Thickener-48.
6] Ensure anchorage – pad first coat avoiding streaking for better penetration.
7] Ensure uniformity - fine spray and allow in-between drying with subsequent light coat.
8] Topcoat protection - use Topcoat Micro-72 Gloss, Matte or Satin.

Leather Doctor® Topcoat Micro-72Gloss/Satin/Matte
It’s available in G gloss, S satin and M Matte finish for Micro-Pigmented, Semi-Aniline leathers.
This micro-pigment topcoat is an aqueous soft polyurethane leather topcoat.
It is lightfast and non-yellowing.
It has excellent flow and leveling properties.
Recoatable and forms a flexible film coat.
It gives good performing results when used for fine semi-aniline effects.
Instruction:
1] Apply after color coat otherwise prep clean - use Prep-7.7 follows with Cleaner-3.8 then Rinse-3.0.
2] Satin finish - mix Matte with Gloss.
3] Fine spray evenly a panel at a time for even coverage avoiding drips and spits.
4] Buttery-feel, non-stick rub-resistant protection with a classic leather scent - use leather Scent-B.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...xiliary3-1.jpg
Leather Dyeing & Coloring Auxiliary (3)

Leather Doctor® Adhesor-73
It’s an auxiliary for Pigmented and Aniline leathers refinishing.
This is an aqueous compact resin adhesion promoter to ensure proper adhesion prior to color coating.
Note:
Strip clean of foreign contamination prior to application – use Prep-7.7 > Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 or equivalent.
Instruction:
1] Shake well, hand padding preferred to ensure better anchorage for non-absorbent leathers.
2] Fine airbrushing for absorbent leathers to reduce patchiness.
3] Let dry naturally or speed dry with blow dryer.
3] Proceed with choice of further coating.

Leather Doctor® Thickener-48
This is an auxiliary aqueous carboxylated acrylic co-polymer thickening agent to stabilize color during spraying.
It’s to adjust the flow of color to improve hold-up especially on vertical panels and antiquing two-tone fashion leathers.
It is highly effective and maintains the viscosity over the period of use.
Instruction:
1] Add 5 to 15% of total weight of color and stir simultaneously while adding.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...tedKit-AP3.jpg
Leather Doctor® Kit-AP3

Auto pigmented leather care Kit-AP3 – it’s designed for more than just care to the surface finish offer by Kit-AP2; it also provides the extra care that keeps the leather structure soft, supple and strong; thus prevents premature aging that leads to cracking along stitching seams and perforated holes, often seen on neglected leathers.

Restorative Cleaning System – the common problems with auto leather seats are dye transfer from clothing including new blue jeans, leather belts and new clothing that crocks or bleeds. The cheap ballpoint lying around do marks the leather occasionally or from children innocent scribbling. Not forgetting the neglects of accumulated soiling that is compounded with layers of ageing conditioners if any, may be desirous to be stripped down to its original beauty. All these tough problems are solved by using the penetrating, lubricating and suspending power of the Prep-7.7 with successive extended periodical dwelling-time and towel extraction until full exhaustion of the stubborn stain is accomplished. Cleaner-3.8 is to remove the remaining sticky residue until towel shows clean; then an acidifying rinse with Rinse-3.0 ensures a healthy squeaky feel to return the leather to it neutral pH of 3-5[6] chemistry integrity. This leather-safe ink and dye stain removal system on healthy finishes without resorting to color refinishing is the breakthrough in the leather care industry.

Leather Rejuvenating System - leathers when wet and dry again, have the tendency for the fibrils to become stick together known as the ‘Van der Waals or London forces’ phenomenal; which result in stiffness and when flexed may leads to premature cracks, often seen on neglected leathers. Thus it is recommended to further hydrate these exposed leather structure and replenish diminishes fatliquor while it is still damp and when it’s dry thereafter, the leather fibrils will be well separated and lubricated to slide over one another smoothly. To withstand the practical usage of constant compressing, stretching and flexing; periodic rejuvenating for softness, suppleness and strength is the answer to retain its structural integrity. On non-absorbent auto leathers the access to the thickness of the leather structure is through the stitching seams, perforated holes and finishes micro cracks. Overnight dwelling with controlled evaporation under clear plastic sheet is technique practice for effective hydration prior to fatliquoring it. The Hydrator-3.3 and the Fatliqor-5.0 as a rejuvenating system uses the same modern tannery principle to impart suppleness to the leather; as seen in this video: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/disc...quor-video.htm

Non-Stick Rub-Resistant Protection - besides, keeping leather appearance at its tip-top condition at all times, not only requires protection against the detrimental effect of sticky soiling but we also have incorporated a rub-resistant feature to reduce the surface from friction wear, to prolong the life of the finishes especially from the characteristically sliding in and out of auto seats. The saying that ‘the scent of leather is more leathery than the leather itself’ is one reason why this elusive unforgettable classic leather scent is much sought after by leather lovers, we simply incorporated into these non-stick, rub-resistant protectors. Leather Scent-D with its draggy-feel is designed for the steering wheel and the gear shift knob for a non-slip grip. Leather Scent-B with its smooth buttery-feel is design for the seats. Both these non-stick rub-resistant protectors can be intermixed to produce the desired tactile-feel and luster effect for the discerning owners.

The contents of this kit include the followings:

Leather Doctor® Hydrator-3.3 in 250ml
This is a pH 3.3 aqueous leather-safe hydrator. It’s for hydrating dried, stiffed or shrunk leathers, often seen as creases and wrinkles; to separates the crushed, stick together fibrils and relaxes them prior to strengthening and softening with Fatliquor-5.0. It’s to reduce the surface tension if any in the inter-fibrillary leather structure for effective distribution of the fatliquor. It’s to help charging the leather protein fibers below its iso-electric point ionic positive, to hydrogen-bond with the negative ionic charged fatliquor. It’s safe for other leather trims that may include aniline, vachetta, nubuck, suede, hair-on-hide and woolskin.

Leather Doctor® Fatliquor-5.0 in 250ml
This is a pH 5.0 anionic charged micro emulsion fatliquor leather rejuvenator. It’s for replenishing original fatliquor that diminishes thru sun-bleaching, ageing, heat and alkaline exposure or cleaning. It penetrates and lubricates the leather fibers so that after drying they will be capable of sliding over one another smoothly. Besides softening the leather with stretchability, compressibility and flexibility; fatliquor enhances its rip tensile strength greatly. Relaxes coarse breaks, creases and wrinkles to provide drapes, suppleness and prevents cracking. It helps to keep leather at its optimum physical performance and prevent premature ageing. It’s safe for all other leather trims including; aniline, vachetta, nubuck, suede, hair-on-hide and woolskin. See a fatliquor video by Discovery Channel: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/disc...quor-video.htm

Leather Doctor® Leather Scent-D in 120ml
This is a non-film forming, non-stick, rub-resistant protector that enhances a draggy-feel with a classic leather scent especially for the steering wheel and the gear shift knob for a non-slip grip. Besides, like the buttery Scent-B, they can be intermixed to produce a custom tactile feel and luster to suite the discerning owner. It imparts a non-stick breathable barrier essentially to shield the detrimental effects of sticky soiling including the nasty ballpoint ink. And it does help to release those tenacious dye-transfer stains especially on light colored leathers easily without resorting to unnecessary color refinishing. Its natural draggy-feel protection increases the leather resistance to wet and dry rubs, thus reduce stretch, scuff and abrasion. It is also used as a scuff repairer, filling and concealing surface scuffs to improve appearance. The drag produces an unforgettable familiar sound sweet to the ears when leather is rubbed.

Leather Doctor® Prep-7.7 in 60ml.
This is a pH 7.7 aqueous high viscosity leather preparatory cleaner for pigmented leather types. It’s developed to strip foreign soil accumulation to its original finish. It works by dwell-time of ½ / 4 / 8 / 24 hour intervals to exhaust especially stubborn dye and ink stains, allowing its superior penetrating, lubricating and suspending power to do its work. When successive dwell-time with towel extraction is followed through, until the stain is entirely exhausted, has proven to work safely on: grease based ink stains like ballpoint ink; water based ink stains like stamp pad ink; dye transfer stains like blue jeans, leather, ink print and newsprint. It is highly recommended that the remaining sticky residue is thereafter removed in conjunction with Cleaner-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 as a holistic leather-safe system to a healthy squeaky feel.

Leather Doctor® Cleaner-3.8 in 250ml.
This is a pH 3.8 all purpose leather-safe anionic cleaner that is particularly effective in emulsifying oily soils and in suspending its particulates. It works by penetrating, lubricating and suspending soiling safely and effectively through gentle chemical reaction; working in perfect harmony with all leather constituents that include the tanning agent, preservative, dyestuff and especially the fatliquor. It's safe for all leather trims including; aniline, vachetta, nubuck and suede. This product is always follows through with Rinse-3.0 as a system to a healthy squeaky feel.

Leather Doctor® Rinse-3.0 in 250ml.
This is a pH 3.0 aqueous anionic leather-safe rinse to neutralize harmful alkaline and perspiration residues; for stabilizing and strengthening leather constituent pH chemistry integrity. It's safe for all leather trims including; aniline, vachetta, nubuck and suede.

Leather Doctor® Leather Scent-B in 120ml.
This is a non-film forming, non-stick rub-resistant protector that enhances a soft natural buttery-feel with an unforgettable classic leather scent. It’s for imparting a non-stick breathable barrier essentially to shield the detrimental effects of sticky soiling including the nasty ballpoint ink. And for helping to release those tenacious dye-transfers stains especially on light colored leathers easily, without resorting to unnecessary color refinishing. Its natural buttery-feel protection increases the leather resistance to wet and dry rubs, thus reduce stretch, scuff and abrasion. And it reduces friction squeaks that wear the finishes when leather is rubbed against during movement or the characteristically sliding in and out of the seat.

Horsehair Detailing Leather Brush-1
This horsehair detailing brush is ergonomically designed to be an extension of our hand with sturdy grooved grip, designed to produce an effective result easily and efficiently for many years to come. It’s recommended for all smooth leather, to deliver a scratch-free agitation cleaning. The length is 7 inches with a three row 1½ inches bristles cleaning head.

PolyBrush®
This is the 3” made in the USA washable foam brush that last. It’s used for spreading the Prep-7.7, rinse clean and thereafter used for the leather Scent-B application to prevent overspray.

Washable Rags
This rag works like cloth, lint free and highly absorbent for extracting suspended soiling or for wiping the leather Scent-B during routine easy cleaning-protection application.

Roger Koh
[email protected]