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View Full Version : Aniline (Full) - Natural finish leather sofa seems like it's drying out.



jefflaws
08-10-2012, 09:25 AM
I have this Natuzzi natural finish (not protected) sofa that was bought in 2004. The last few years it's gotten this light colored ashy look where the leather has been bent a lot (as in it's not doing this on the sides and back that stay straight) and more recently will feel a little scaly or slightly rough to the touch when it seems dry in the house. That feeling is not there all the time and it's when it's kinda humid that it's softer. I've never used anything on it except a Wilson's leather lotion product and I've used it very infrequent and sparingly but it does remedy it for just a day or so at a time. I'm really not that interested in restoring the original pristine look since it's a natural leather finish with no layer of protection, I just think it needs hydrating to keep its softness and prevent it from getting worse. I'm also ok with being told not to try to do anything to it, that it's just a natural progression of unprotected leather, but my gut feeling is it needs some re-hydration.


Overview pictures:

1. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7753095400_f90b29c51d_h.jpg

2. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/7753116420_f8cf88c6b1_k.jpg


Seating surface (warning, huge image):

3. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8289/7753102378_0b2aa66d92_o.jpg

4. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/7753098388_8ab9b246f8_o.jpg

5. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/7753112556_bfdf65434c_o.jpg

6. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7753105766_615953fec0_o.jpg


Those same pictures in a more manageable viewing size:

3. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8289/7753102378_13d2b92134_h.jpg

4. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/7753098388_0d14d35a45_h.jpg

5. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/7753112556_3273ad79ea_h.jpg

6. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7753105766_70898421d8_h.jpg


Showing the used surfaces against the unused surfaces:

7. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7753108938_7b05963af8_h.jpg


Another view of each of the three seating areas (I have the 21mpixel image but don't think it's worth the extra file size to see):

8. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7753120766_df60c96974_h.jpg

9. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7753125592_939511e0f6_h.jpg

10. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8296/7753130510_33dfb8e963_h.jpg


And here's an armrest with the dry look:

11. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8285/7753135196_291df0b83e_h.jpg

And the same one 5 minutes later after rubbing a little of this (http://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/prodpop.jsp?LargeImageURL=http%3A//WIL.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pG01-1595539v380a.jpg&displayTab=enh&productId=1834945) on it. Another 5 minutes of drying and the dark areas would go away and it would look and feel good for a day or so:

12. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7753140024_50b4ce625a_h.jpg


This is the ottoman from the same purchase, it's just had very little use over the years:

13. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/7749249294_b5fdbb3b0a_h.jpg



Here's small images for those that don't want to click the links to see the large files.

1.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7753095400_f88acab08b_z.jpg

2.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/7753116420_4eb51c9d88_z.jpg

3.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8289/7753102378_51abd792fb_z.jpg

4.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8435/7753098388_f5ae01a62b_z.jpg

5.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7753105766_227142fb39_z.jpg

6.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7254/7753112556_77bcdfbde1_z.jpg

7.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7753108938_ddcf488373_z.jpg

8.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7753120766_a17d85148e_z.jpg

9.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7753125592_09886d0492_z.jpg

10.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8296/7753130510_1b5d9267ec_z.jpg

11.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8285/7753135196_d3c58c1a98_z.jpg

12.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7753140024_3b0241d78b_z.jpg

13.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/7749249294_fbf14371ef_z.jpg

jefflaws
08-10-2012, 01:36 PM
For example, today has been rainy and cooler than it's been (AC hasn't run as much) and it looks and feels better on its own. I'd be happy if it was like this all the time.

Roger Koh
08-10-2012, 08:32 PM
Very good pictures! I like it!

Leather Finishes:

From pictures, this leather types is identified as aniline leather typical from a full grain leather where the natural scars mark shows as in Picture #11, could also be micro-pigmented to give such even color as shown in picture #7 & #1; the no body contact areas. The only way to test it out is using Stripper-2.3 on a hidden area; micro-pigment will have a little crumple of the pigment, where else aniline will transfer the dye to the cotton.


Not Protected:

This leather has a topcoat that seals the aniline dye; otherwise you may see the bronzing of the aniline dye and the dyes will be easily crocks or bleed on a white towel.
Again Picture #7 shows the topcoat that is cracking, you can even feel it with your eyes closed – that is now deteriorated that need refinishing back to the original.


Light Colored Ashy Look:

Topcoat Damages!


Feel a Little Scaly or slightly Rough.

Topcoat Damages more severely!


No layer of protection:

You get it all wrong – the topcoat is the protection!


Rough to the touch when it seems dry in the house; That feeling is not there all the time and it's when it's kinda humid that it's softer.

Suppleness of leather depends on the original fatliquor (ionic charged fat, oil and water). The fat and oil evaporates as gases (just like the engine oil of our car); so when the atmosphere becomes kinda humid the leather takes the moisture from the air (transpiration) that is to say the leather does breathe. When the room becomes dryer the water content of the leather evaporates. Original the leather moisture content that makes up of fat, oil and water reads close to 14%. When the fat and oil is replenish you will not have this moisture content fluctuation.


I'm also ok with being told not to try to do anything to it, that it's just a natural progression of unprotected leather, but my gut feeling is it needs some re-hydration.

Unprotected leather is talking about the vegetable-tanned leathers also known as Vachetta; sorry yours is a wrong identification.


When "Unprotected" leather is new, its looks pale just like a baby skin not exposed to UV sinlight. See the contrasting color with the legs, as the leather ages it blends in,


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Leather%20Upholstery/Fredericia-brge_mogensen-model_2213.jpg


This is what it should look – like this "unprotected" famous Fredericia-2213 leather sofa from Denmark - that ages beautifully!

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/1603177-3.jpg


A leather types like this above picture shows is what you imagine your leather to be. This “unprotected” leathers will never behaves as what you describe to your leather – there is a great different in these two types of leather. This “unprotected” leather will darkens with exposure to sunlight just the our skin that tans, while aniline leather will lighten under sunlight and the “protective topcoat “ just like varnish lightens in color, roughen and cracks. In most cases the refinishing of the topcoat is just like varnishing on wooden furniture. The dyestuff that fades can be reactivated by hydration (just like tea leaves being activated with hot water) it will resurface to refresh the top surface that have under exposure to UV lights. Fatliquor replenishing will also enhance the intensity of the color.

Would you like to rethink about what I said so far?


Roger Koh
[email protected]

jefflaws
08-11-2012, 05:34 AM
Ok, so my misconception about "protected" or not and whether it has a topcoat comes from this...

When this furniture was bought, the Natuzzi dealer showed us two different types that they came in. One was called "Natural" and was described as unprotected and the other "Protecta" which they described as the surface being covered with a protective layer. They still show these as the two types on their site: http://us.natuzzi.com/65/14/COLLECTION/39249/Coverings/39252/%20Leather (you have to let it cycle between the two).

Also this sofa will instantly absorb a drop of water into a dark moist spot that takes 10-15 minutes to dry and lighten back up whereas another aniline sofa I have upstairs is known to be a protected leather and a drop of water on it will stand and if you wipe it off within a couple of minutes it will not soak in or darken the leather. The Natuzzi sofa has also always left a red transfer on a damp white towel if wiped from the time it was new I think, at least it will in the last few years. So this furthered my thought that the Natuzzi was unprotected while the Lane sofa was protected aniline leather.

This is the tag that came on the sofa in question and the N1535 is what designated it as their Natural finish:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8425/7758649038_0dcebb8890_c.jpg


And this is the tag on the Lane sofa where it's designated as protected aniline:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8424/7758652020_361e71cfd3_c.jpg

jefflaws
08-11-2012, 05:48 AM
Again Picture #7 shows the topcoat that is cracking, you can even feel it with your eyes closed – that is now deteriorated that need refinishing back to the original.


Actually the area on the armrest in picture 7 that shows some lightness in the grain is really really soft, like I'd like the whole sofa to be. It's the middle of the areas in 8, 9, and 10 that can feel just a little bit scaly in super dry conditions in the house. Even the top of the armrest in picture 11 always feels soft and never scaly.





A leather types like this above picture shows is what you imagine your leather to be. This “unprotected” leathers will never behaves as what you describe to your leather – there is a great different in these two types of leather. This “unprotected” leather will darkens with exposure to sunlight just the our skin that tans, while aniline leather will lighten under sunlight and the “protective topcoat “ just like varnish lightens in color, roughen and cracks.


See, again I thought aniline leather could be unprotected or maybe I should just say without a topcoat. In looking at this it seems like it's along the lines of my thinking of what my Natuzzi is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniline_leather



Aniline leather is a type of leather dyed exclusively with soluble dyes without covering the surface with a topcoat paint or insoluble pigments....There are different kinds of aniline leather, but the same kinds of dyes are used in the process. The dyes used are clear and transparent chemicals that allow the grain structure of the leather to be seen. These dyes show the natural texture, but do not protect the leather from damage.



And here this section on unprotected or natural aniline leather seems like it's what I have does it not?

http://www.kjsup.com/kjleather.htm


Unprotected or natural Aniline leather: Aniline is a type of translucent dye that does not mask the grain or imperfections of the leather, similar to the way that wood stain works. Full-Aniline is leather with little or no surface coating. The appeal of this leather is its initial "natural" look and the soft, supple texture. The downside is aesthetic vulnerability. Due to the porous nature of untreated leather, it stains easily. It is UV sensitive (rated 300-400 hours), which can fade color quickly.


http://www.ehow.com/how_5832310_care-aniline-leather-sofa.html


Aniline leather is leather that is unprotected or not treated with a clear topical coating. Because of this, sofas made of aniline leather are prone to staining and fading from the UV rays of sunlight and do not repel water or other liquids the way finished leather sofas do.




I mean even in the store when we were buying this, the sales person showed how a drop of water acted on this natural finish that we bought (soaked in and darkened instantly) compared to what they called protected leather just to make sure we knew what we were getting into.

jefflaws
08-11-2012, 06:15 AM
Here's what a drop of water on the back of it where there's been no wear or traffic on it does in just 20 seconds:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/7758870522_a1c979aa22_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7758868616_33e5c1c237_c.jpg


And here's what wiping across that same area does to a damp rag:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7129/7758891642_91269ec771_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7758893534_dec758052a_c.jpg

Roger Koh
08-11-2012, 10:28 PM
There are varieties of aniline leathers – all aniline leathers are the same that goes through dyeing in a rotating drum, but the finish may be different, example. . .

Pure-Aniline would simply have a fine dye fix (protection) to reduce the dyes crocking and bleeding – this pure aniline will have the most natural look usually on pebble grain or shunken grain leathers.

Waxed Aniline will have a waxy-matte topcoat (protection) that gives a matte look with a waxy feel.

Yours is the gloss Aniline type that has a gloss urethane (protection) that gives the look you see.

Even suede and nubuck has the similar dye fix (protection) same as the Pure-Aniline.

The only “Unprotected” leathers are the white and the brown.

White leathers derive from Alum, Aldehyde or Synthetic or a combination and are typically pale cream color to white – examples are baseball leathers.

Brown leathers derive from vegetable-tanned leathers like the Fredericia 2213.

So yours is done with Aniline Dye-21 system either by staining or by coating (now we are talking about if you wish to refinish your leather); thereafter it is locked in with Aniline Topcoat-79G.

The softness you experience is “soft and weak” and may not be “soft and strong” – with diminishing fatliquor the leather weakens, that causes the surface “feel a little scaly or slightly rough”.

Surface absorbency:
Micro crazing develops that cause the leather to be more absorbent – the scaly or rough areas will absorb moisture much faster than the unused area – even pigment leather will becomes absorbent sooner or later when micro cracks developed.

A pigmented leather can still be absorbent examples are the so called napa leather – more common on jacket and they are very absorbent – yet protected. They used formulations that produced “discontinuous film”. There are aniline leathers that are use in boats – will not absorb water at all. Does what I say surprise you?

Dye rub-off:
You show the white towel with dye transfer. What causes the dye transfer is the pH of the water or any solution you used. Leather is not homogenous, about 30% of the leather constituents are the chemistry of the leather besides the protein fiber. Most of these leather constituents are anionic or ionic negative charged (-ve), including the red dyes that rubs off; it is hydrogen-bonded to the protein cationic or ionic positive charged (+ve) fibers. Average pH of leather is around 4 (pH 3 – 5); that is also the neutral pH of the leather; sometimes refer to it as the isoelectric-point. Leather protein fiber is amphoteric, and any solution that has a pH higher than the isoelectric-point or lower will shift it either (+ve) or (-ve). In your case the water from the tap is around the pH of 7, higher than the isoelectric-point of the leather protein fiber, thus shift the pH of the protein fiber toward the (-ve); the dyes molecule breaks the hydrogen-bonding and breaks free or become fugitive. Water has therefore destabilized the chemistry integrity of your leather. When you let a pH 2.0 acidifier to wipe or a pH 3.0 rinse to wipe you will notice that the color bleeding is reduced.

So what is in your thinking that you want a scientific answer?


Roger Koh
[email protected]

jefflaws
08-12-2012, 10:32 AM
I guess I just always thought of the white and brown leathers that you refer to as unprotected as "unfinished", and the ones that will quickly absorb water when new "unprotected", and the ones that a water drop will bead on as "protected". That's how the Natuzzi documentation describes it, they actually call my sofa unprotected (the Natural collection) and their urethane coated ones the Protecta collection. But anyway...

I think all I'm looking to do here is at least in the meantime is to replenish the moisture, so could you show me what I need (I'm thinking Hydrator 3.3 and Fatliquor 5.0) and exactly how to use it and what to expect. If you could, please send me the pricing info via email. I'm just very hesitant to do anything to it that may either turn out bad, or seem like it's good now but turn out making something worse later on.

Roger Koh
08-15-2012, 09:20 AM
Let’s take a look at the following sequence of procedure recommendation and see what you can get out of it; as you mentioned you do not like to do something that seem good but may be making something worse later on; so we are talking about the holistic approach to your situation.

1] Degreasing:
Degreasing is recommended to the headrest right back cushion and to the center seat cushion, feathering out to the rest of the cushions entirely edge to edge. This is in fact a wet preparation ready for refinishing with color as an option. Degreaser-2.2 (pH 2.2), water-based is used with few functions in mind, first is to degrease penetrated and surface of grease, oil and sweat; second is to neutralize the pH of the sweat contamination; third is to control bleeding; forth is to increase the strength of the ionic charged of the leather protein fiber positive (+ve). Grease stain will turn milky in appearance as it is emulsified, it is then towel extracted; follows with rinsing with Rinse-3.0 (pH 3.0) until squeaky clean. Take note that deteriorated topcoat coating will be removed and it is also recommended to thoroughly removed them with the help of leather Eraser-4 in conjunction with 2000grit sanding to smoothen the surface while wet with the help of Rinse-3.0 and towel extraction. Note that existing aged and old conditioner used need stripping off as well so as not to distort the look of the finish.

2] Hydrating:
Hydrating is done with Hydrator-3.3 (pH 3.3), this is done with soaking the leather thickness of the leather and letting it dwell from 24 to 72 hours under plastic wrapping to relax and plumps the leather. The features of this process includes: a) the plumping of the leather will return the tautness of the leather and reduces the unnatural over-stretch creases (when fatliquor replenished thereafter) – this is done with stretching crosswise while the leather is soft and limp; b) with moisture in the leather structure it helps to move or allows the suspended soiling particulates to “swim-out” to the surface known as the wicking process. c) reduces surface tension of the leather protein fiber; d) ionic charges the amphoteric leather protein fiber positive (+ve), stabilizing the chemistry integrity of the leather; e) preconditioning the leather ready for fatliquor replenishing.

3] Fatliquor:
Fatliquor replenishing is accomplished with Fatliquor-5.0 (pH 5.0), an negative (-ve) charged ionic fat, oil and water; a modern tannery standard of softening the leather with suppleness and strength.

4] Aniline Dyeing (an option):
This is done with Aniline Dye-21 (matching color), “staining” the leather fiber. Another option is to “coating” (with help of Adhesor-73) over the existing topcoat that may impede the “staining” of the dye.

5] Topcoating:
Topcoating is done with Aniline Topcoat-79G – this is the process to refinish the deteriorated topcoat that reveal as scaly or rough to the touch.

6] Non-Stick, Rub-Resistance, Buttery-Feel, Leather-Scented Protection:

This is done with Protection-B+


If the complete holistic restoration is to be done, it has to follow this sequence without deviation; however dyeing is an option, so is degreasing and the finish protection.


Note that the scaly deteriorated topcoat will look worse later on if it is not refinished at this stage.

See Aniline Problem Solving Guide for specialty problems.

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Aniline13-LPG.jpg
Leather-Safe Aniline Leather Problem Solving Guide-A9


Products mention can be found in this Kit A6.dr.
This kit is a complete (routine, periodic, restorative) care for your leather type – the standard red may not be an exact match to your existing color.



http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Leather%20Doctor%20products/KitA6dr.jpg
Leather Doctor® Aniline Leather – Color Refinisher & Degreaser – Kit A6.dr

Standard Colors available:
Black,
Yellow,
Orange,
Red,
Red Brown,
Rubine,
Blue &
Dark Brown

Custom Color Matching Available on Request



Prices will be sending by email.


Roger Koh
[email protected]

jefflaws
11-13-2013, 01:25 PM
So after a year I finally got the A3 kit. My plan is to try the instructions for periodic care in a spot and then decide whether to try the restorative care on other places of it, the difference being using the prep 4.4 or not.

I'll post any questions or updates as I go.

jefflaws
11-13-2013, 02:48 PM
If I clean with cleaner 3.8 and then rinse 3.0 should I wait until it's completely dry before using hydrator 3.3 or can I do it when it's still somewhat damp?

jefflaws
11-14-2013, 04:13 AM
Also you mentioned letting the hydrator dwell 24-72 hours, I'm assuming this is with the leather soaked and plastic wrap over it? What about if after 1-2 hours it feels like it's soaked all the way through and can squeeze out if you pinch it, is that long enough?



Sorry for all the different questions but just thought of another, if I'm using hydrator and fatliquor for just a softening or rejuvenation effect, can they be applied at almost the same time and then wrapped in plastic? Like if I were soaking or re-soaking wits hydrator and then just a few minutes later spray on the fatliquor, rub in, and then cover with plastic to sit for hours? Is this effective or counter productive?

Roger Koh
11-14-2013, 10:06 AM
If I clean with cleaner 3.8 and then rinse 3.0 should I wait until it's completely dry before using hydrator 3.3 or can I do it when it's still somewhat damp?




Tips:

On soiling conditions as picture 8 & 9 above shows, leaving it completely dry allows penetrated soiling to resurface for brushing and erasing (Brush-1 and Eraser-4) for inspection as an extra drying step.

For other cleaner areas Hdyrator-3.3 may follow while Rinse-3.0 is still damp, thereafter inspection for soiling takes place after Hydrator-3.3.

Hydrator-3.3 is the last stage of the wet cleaning process with final inspection prior to proceeding to the Fatliquor-5.0. phase (in this leather rejuvenating phase Hydrator-3.3 is lightly mist for an even appearance to check for surface tension prior to Fatliquor-5.0).

Hydrator-3.3 is the most versatile and multifunctional process, see its various usage:


2072
Leather Doctor® Hydrator-3.3 is a waterbased pH 3.3 leather-safe hydrator. It is a fatliquor preconditioner with multi functional abilities. Surface application is primary to check for even surface tension free of blotchiness prior to fatliquor replenishing. Structural application will require saturating to an optimum level with moisture oozing out when gently pressed between thumb and fingers.
The multi functional abilities include:
a) to check for surface tension for an even appearance free from blotchiness prior to fatliquor replenishing.
b) To plumps, relaxes and separates crushed, shrunk and stick together fibrils for manipulating away-unwanted creases and wrinkles.
c) To rectify alkaline overexposure areas by facilitating colloidal water movement to redistribute the leather constituents from surrounding areas.
d) To activate the dormant dyestuff within the leather structure for color refreshing.
e) To facilitates colloidal water movement within the inter-fibrillary spaces for wicking foreign soiling particulates to resurface.
f) To stabilize, pH balance and charge the protein fiber below its iso-electric point (pI) ionic positive to hydrogen bond with the ionic negative fatliquor more effectively.


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com

jefflaws
11-14-2013, 11:05 AM
So if I'm not doing any cleaning to an area or already done cleaning, and I've soaked it well with hydrator, and the hydrator is absorbing in immediately and evenly can I follow that right up with fatliquor without waiting any period of time?

Roger Koh
11-14-2013, 11:05 AM
>>> Also you mentioned letting the hydrator dwell 24-72 hours, I'm assuming this is with the leather soaked and plastic wrap over it? What about if after 1-2 hours it feels like it's soaked all the way through and can squeeze out if you pinch it, is that long enough?

Tips:
The duration of dwelling time is associated with intend purpose of the Hydrator-3.3. Dwell time may range from 5 minutes to check for surface tension prior to Fatliquor-5.0 to most other purposes (see the multi functional abilities of Hydrator-3.3 post earlier).

It is the end desired result that is the first consideration timing is secondary.

Optimum hydrating is determined or achieved with moisture oozing out when squeeze between finger and thumb. Dwell-time takes place and commences from this ideal or optimum hydrating condition.



>>> Sorry for all the different questions but just thought of another, if I'm using hydrator and fatliquor for just a softening or rejuvenation effect, can they be applied at almost the same time and then wrapped in plastic? Like if I were soaking or re-soaking wits hydrator and then just a few minutes later spray on the fatliquor, rub in, and then cover with plastic to sit for hours? Is this effective or counter productive?

Tips:
Fatliquor-5.0 follows immediately after Hydrator-3.3.
When Fatliquor-5.0 is easily absorbed with an even appearance – control evaporation is redundant (that is the function of the Hydrator-3.3). No plastic wrapping after Fatliquor-5.0 - natural drying allows water contents to evaporate so that multiple reapplications in between drying till saturation will make the leather as soft as you wish.


2073
Leather Doctor® Fatliquor-5.0, a micro emulsion of fat, oil and water is an anionic charged pH 5.0 fatliquor for rejuvenating all leather types. It relaxes coarse breaks, creases and wrinkles enhance suppleness and prevent cracking. It softens the leather with stretchability, compressibility and flexibility, while enhancing its rip tensile strength greatly. It is for replenishing the original fat and oil that diminishes thru sun-bleaching, ageing, heat and alkaline overexposure or cleaning. On application, the water-encased molecule breaks free when hydrogen bond attraction takes place between the fat and oil with the protein fiber. The excess free water content wicks out leaving a breathing space behind for leather natural transpiration. The fat plumps the leather with fullness from easily collapsing into creases and wrinkles during stress or flex, while the oil lubricates the fibers so that they slide over one another smoothly like millions of inter-connecting hinges. Thus helps to keep leather at its optimum physical performance and prevent premature ageing.

Instruction:

1. Apply Fatliquor-5.0 and redistribute with foam brush until saturation.
2. Repeat application each time water contents evaporate until fully saturated.
3. Drive remaining surface remnants free of milky fat and oil until it turns clear with Hydrator-3.3.
4. Allow natural drying for extra softness.

Tips:

1. When crispy dry, prior surface contaminations/damages may darkens as soiling particulates resurface.
2. Removes soiling particulates with Eraser-4 for all leathers including nubuck and Eraser-5 for suede.
3. Stretching the darken areas lightly will also lightens the appearance.

jefflaws
11-14-2013, 12:07 PM
Ok, so softening with fatliqour doesn't require hydrator if the leather is readily absorbing it and you don't need to cover it with plastic because you want the water part to evaporate, correct?

If the above statement is correct would a routine conditioning for keeping softness be to (a) mist with hydrator to make sure the leather readily and evenly absorbs it and then (b) applying the fatliquor without actually saturating or soaking the leather with the hydrator?

Roger Koh
11-14-2013, 12:35 PM
Hydrator-3.3 is a preconditioner for Fatliquor-5.0, it pave the way for the fatliquor for easy access to the inter- fibriliary space. For routine conditioning, the mist spraying of the hydrator is to check for even absorption avoiding blotchiness in the presence of body oil after fatliquoring. Fatliquor-5.0 is design for the leather structure, Hydrator-3.3 helps in many ways to ensure that the fat and oil deposit or hydrogen-bond with the protein fiber more efficiently. Hydrator-3.3 is also used for checking the surface strays of the fatliquor when the leather surface is dry so that it would not remain on the surface to attract soiling – simply mist spray, wipe with towel, let dry and protect with Protector-B+ / B.


Tips:

Show before and after pictures of your accomplishment.

jefflaws
11-15-2013, 08:59 AM
How long after applying several soaks/coats of fatliquor should it be considered "dry"? I'm a little bothered that every time it dries for 4-5 hours and the darkness of it being wet goes away that it gets stiffer than it used to be and that prompts me to spray on more fatliquor (it feels soft when wet), but I've done this 4 or 5 times now and it has to be well saturated. So should I wait a good 10-12 hours for it to dry and then knead the stiffness out and apply protector B+ to take away the papery, draggy feel? Also, is rinse 3.0 ok to use after fatliquoring (on a rag, not sprayed on the leather) to wipe the surface with before the protector? Any reason it would feel stiff after so much fatliquor, I've almost used 250ml on a 12"x24" area of the center cushion.

jefflaws
11-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Update, it seems like it's not stiffening up this last time, the last time I applied fatliquor was about 6 hours ago. I'm not putting any topcoat on it at this point so should I wipe over it with rinse and then the protector, or just use protector next? Also, should approximately two square feet of area have needed almost 250ml of fatliquor in order to not feel stiff after drying? It's not like it was hard or stiff before I started cleaning and hydrating it.

Roger Koh
11-15-2013, 11:32 AM
>>> How long after applying several soaks/coats of fatliquor should it be considered "dry"? I'm a little bothered that every time it dries for 4-5 hours and the darkness of it being wet goes away that it gets stiffer than it used to be and that prompts me to spray on more fatliquor (it feels soft when wet), but I've done this 4 or 5 times now and it has to be well saturated.
Update, it seems like it's not stiffening up this last time, the last time I applied fatliquor was about 6 hours ago.

One reason may be insufficient fatliquor that reaches the entire thickness of the leather resulting in stiffness when dry. It is the thickness of the leather that is to be well lubricated that will prevent stiffness. Stiffness from wet to dry may be explained by “London Forces” or “Van der Vaal Forces” principle – the tendency for material to be stiffer after drying. In the tannery production process the leather goes into another process to soften it after fatliquoring, know as Staking / Dry Milling / Tumbling (separating the stick together fiber again by physical means) to soften and strengthen it.


>>> Update, it seems like it's not stiffening up this last time, the last time I applied fatliquor was about 6 hours ago.

This last time, the fat and oil contents may have reach the entire thickness of the leather to prevent the protein leather fibril from being sticking close together as water contents evaporates. It is the lubricating of these millions of interlocking connecting leather fibrils that works like hinges that impart suppleness to the leather.


>>> So should I wait a good 10-12 hours for it to dry and then knead the stiffness out and apply protector B+ to take away the papery, draggy feel?

Yes!


>>> Also, is rinse 3.0 ok to use after fatliquoring (on a rag, not sprayed on the leather) to wipe the surface with before the protector?
Always use Hydrator-3.3 before or after Fatliquor-5.0.


>>> Any reason it would feel stiff after so much fatliquor, I've almost used 250ml on a 12"x24" area of the center cushion.

You may check it out with a moisture meter to confirm the moisture level. Leather when feel dry may still have up to 14% of fatliquor moisture content.


>>> I'm not putting any topcoat on it at this point so should I wipe over it with rinse and then the protector, or just use protector next?

Use Hydrator-3.3 for wiping surface fatliquor strays (from stickiness) prior to Protector-B+ / B.


>>> Also, should approximately two square feet of area have needed almost 250ml of fatliquor in order to not feel stiff after drying? It's not like it was hard or stiff before I started cleaning and hydrating it.

Use a moisture meter to determine its moisture content, fatliquor amount use will depends on its existing dryness and the thickness of the leather.


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com

jefflaws
11-15-2013, 11:43 AM
If I were to apply topcoat back to this area or to any of the other areas that appear to have diminished can I used topcoat aniline 21? Should I go with gloss, matte, or natural? This furniture has always readily absorbed water drops since new so I don't want to coat it over too much.

And if I were to just put the protector on it for now and then topcoat later, what would I have to do before top coating?

Roger Koh
11-15-2013, 12:03 PM
>>> If I were to apply topcoat back to this area or to any of the other areas that appear to have diminished can I used topcoat aniline 21?

Any application of topcoat has to be on very clean surface; otherwise surface contamination may be seal beneath it.
Besides the matching level of soiling removal, residue surface soiling is erased with Eraser-4 and deteriorated topcoating is fine 2000grit sand away prior to re-topcoating.


>>> Should I go with gloss, matte, or natural? This furniture has always readily absorbed water drops since new so I don't want to coat it over too much.

Test out with gloss; adjust by having matte to mix with gloss to gives satin. Do not think it is natural. See this link for choice: http://www.leatherdoctor.com/servlet/the-Topcoat-%E2%80%93-AnilineTop-dsh-21/Categories


>>> And if I were to just put the protector on it for now and then topcoat later, what would I have to do before top coating?

Protector-B+ is a non-stick protector, thus have to be remove prior to topcoat it, otherwise it will peel. Use Adhesor-73 prior to topcoat for better adhesion.


Note:
For leather always think thrice before action and test prior to actual application.



Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com

jefflaws
11-17-2013, 06:26 AM
So I'm done doing what I'm going to do right now to it (I cleaned that center cushion with 3.8 and a towel, rinsed with 3.0, hydrated with 3.3 quite a few times with plastic over it, and 4 or 5 applications of fatliquor). It's all dry now and I put protector on the whole sofa. My issue is that there is a 5 or 6 inch area near the front edge of that center cushion that doesn't have a slick feel to it anymore. It's like it's too absorbent and draggy, not to the point of being suede feeling and I didn't sand it or scuff it, the paper towels being the only thing that rubbed it during the whole process. But it is probably the highest traffic part from before the cleaning and rehydration. What suggestions do you have for making it feel like the rest of the leather surface again?

Roger Koh
11-17-2013, 11:23 AM
>>> My issue is that there is a 5 or 6 inch area near the front edge of that center cushion that doesn't have a slick feel to it anymore. It's like it's too absorbent and draggy, not to the point of being suede feeling and I didn't sand it or scuff it, the paper towels being the only thing that rubbed it during the whole process. But it is probably the highest traffic part from before the cleaning and rehydration.

Good to see pictures for side issue considerations.

You may be describing a leather texture associated with an over-stretching problem.

See problem-solving guide for sequence of approach. Product for such problem is rectified with Impregnator-26 and for aniline leathers the recommended approach is to be done at the reverse suede side into the leather structure to avoid surface permanent darkening issue. Be warn that Impregnator-26 is a repair product that may lead to unwanted dye refinishing into a darker color to camouflage it.


2094
Leather Doctor® Impregnator-26 is design for structural weakness on pigmented and aniline smooth leather types. This is a protein compact resin-blend compound for impregnating worn leather grains and micro cracks. It is to seal, strengthen and leveling out uneven absorption for further coating process. It fills and tightens with good leveling properties that is film forming for improve abrasion resistance.


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com

Roger Koh
11-17-2013, 11:33 AM
>>> I cleaned that center cushion with 3.8 and a towel


Tips:

Recommended to use horsehair Brush-1 to do the agitation with Clean-3.8 then towel extraction follows to pick up soiling, until towel shows clean.

Feedback:
Do you like the leather scent of Protector-B+?

jefflaws
11-17-2013, 12:45 PM
Attached is a picture of that area where my hand is. All around it is still smooth and slicker feeling. When I first put the protector on it it *almost* felt slick again but it quickly became draggy. It's not sticky or tacky feeling, just more fabric like and I think it's way more absorbent than before. I think before I did something like the impregnator I'd just leave it be, I def don't want to do something I can't reverse and regret it. You don't think there's a chance a light coat of topcoat would make it better do you? And is topcoat applied by spraying like spray paint, spraying and then wiping, or just wiping on?

I like the protector b+ although I think I may order some without the scent and alternate use. How often would you recommended using that (monthly, after several months, etc)? Is there any detrimental effects from it and does it build up in any bad way? Can you tell me what it's made of that makes it slick without being greasy, it isn't any type of silicone is it?

Keep in mind I don't mind that weathered look of the cracked up topcoat and some of the color variance, as long as it's all supple and smooth.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3822/10911591045_75ef077b69_b_d.jpg

Roger Koh
11-18-2013, 10:59 AM
>>> You don't think there's a chance a light coat of topcoat would make it better do you?

Over-stretching of the leather structure or inherent looseness or emptiness of the grain (over weaker areas of the hide) is only rectifiable by Impregnator-26.

The functions of topcoat decide its desired luster of gloss, matte or natural for restoring the original finish. Without these topcoats, the dyeing would be: a) poor in aesthetics such as bronzing hue and tactile sensation; b) susceptible to crocking when dry and bleeding when wet: c) poor physical properties such as wet rub, sweat resistant and scuff resistant; d) poor in ageing properties such as soil resistant and wet cleaning resistant.

Topcoat will improve the existing color lost by amplifying and magnifying the color intensity especially with a gloss finish – AnilineTop-21G. Topcoat reduces wears to the leather grain that result in over-stretching so in a way it helps over-stretching indirectly.

Tips:
Refer to guide, Protector-B+ is always after AnilineTop-21G, otherwise remove the Protector-B+ prior to topcoat it.


>>> And is topcoat applied by spraying like spray paint, spraying and then wiping, or just wiping on?

Spraying allows the even distribution control of the topcoat, any excess is blot out. Wiping on alone may not reach down to the groves or too much to the grains and too little to the groves or unwanted streaks – depending on the leather texture.


>>> I like the protector b+ although I think I may order some without the scent and alternate use.

Protector B+ and B can be mixed to adjust the scent intensity prior to spray.


>>> How often would you recommended using that (monthly, after several months, etc)?

The wear of the “leather” begins with Protector-B+, follows with AnilneTop-21 before wearing off the grain, which is irreplaceable. Concentration of the protector application is to the wear areas, especially to the seat cushion more than to the any un-touch part of the leather. As long as there will be a period of heavy use (like a party) apply it prior and likewise apply again after cleaning accordingly. This preventive care with Protector-B+ will keep the appearance of the leather at the highest level of appearance most of the time, worry free.


>>> Is there any detrimental effects from it and does it build up in any bad way?

When Protector-B+ is applied as mention above, there is little chance of over build-up and they wears away from friction rubs.



>>> Keep in mind I don't mind that weathered look of the cracked up topcoat and some of the color variance, as long as it's all supple and smooth.

Always keep and restore the matching topcoat coat where it should be, not only maintaining its aesthetic of appearance but prevents wears that result in over-stretching as well.


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com

jefflaws
11-18-2013, 11:29 AM
Always more questions! :-D

So what is the difference between topcoat 79 and topcoat 21? Just from my reading on your product pages it seems like 21 is what I would want because I want to retain as much of a natural finish and feel as I can and the 79 is described as being a more heavy poly type coating which I do not desire. Just asking because in the first assessment last year you instructed to use 79, but now I'm thinking we are on the same page recommending the 21.

Also, the price of the 60ml topcoat 21 matte appears to be wrong on the website, and I was going to order some along with gloss. It shows $89 and I think it should be $17.95. How soon can this be corrected so I can order? And if I get two 60ml bottles how would I spray it on, would you be able to send me an empty 250ml spray bottle to use with it? Or is there a pump top for that size bottle?

I've read most of the posts in this section of the forum and have seen a couple of mentions of people describing scuffed or abraised surfaces that make me think of my small problem area and it's been recommended to use adhesor 73 to "smooth" or "lay the fibers back down". Is there any chance this would help my spot and in general what effect does the adhesor have on the grain surface of the leather?

And lastly (for now, haha) what exact process to get that area ready for topcoat would I go through since I have already put protector on it? I want to order the two 60ml of topcoat 21 (gloss and matte) and some more protector along with anything like adhesor, etc that I will need.

Roger Koh
11-18-2013, 12:18 PM
>>> So what is the difference between topcoat 79 and topcoat 21? Just from my reading on your product pages it seems like 21 is what I would want because I want to retain as much of a natural finish and feel as I can and the 79 is described as being a more heavy poly type coating which I do not desire. Just asking because in the first assessment last year you instructed to use 79, but now I'm thinking we are on the same page recommending the 21.

21 is easier for brush or pad application with better control and less streaks (AnilineTop-21G gloss is strongest among the other version in term of friction wear).


>>> Also, the price of the 60ml topcoat 21 matte appears to be wrong on the website, and I was going to order some along with gloss. It shows $89 and I think it should be $17.95. How soon can this be corrected so I can order?

Thank you, changes made.


>>> And if I get two 60ml bottles how would I spray it on, would you be able to send me an empty 250ml spray bottle to use with it? Or is there a pump top for that size bottle?

Spraying in this context is done with airbrushing with compressed air (best range is 80 -100psi) for professional result. Manual application is best done with varnishing brush, otherwise a foam brush or lint free paper towel that comes with the kit will do. (each of these tools may vary in result, but still depends on personal skill – need practice). I believe the lighter areas may absorbed more so in this situation manual padding or brushing may suit better for the topcoat leveling up. Technically speaking Adhesor-73 is meant for sealing the uneven absorption; however in your situation you are not having a complete refinishing that may alter the original appearance. So for partial improvement topcoating it with padding may be the best option.

Tips:
Transfer the product to a plate or small painting tray, drip the foam brush and saturate it well prior to applying to the leather surface, going over to seal the more absorbent areas and reduce built up. This is done while the product is still damp on the foam brush.


>>> I've read most of the posts in this section of the forum and have seen a couple of mentions of people describing scuffed or abraised surfaces that make me think of my small problem area and it's been recommended to use adhesor 73 to "smooth" or "lay the fibers back down". Is there any chance this would help my spot and in general what effect does the adhesor have on the grain surface of the leather?

Adhesor-73 is a surface repairer to smoothed surface abrasion to a smooth skin; it will also intensify the color saturation and not a problem for appearance for darker colored leathers. For a light and medium color range in this case, it is best to test it out if the darkening effect becomes a problem in appearance.

Tips:
Sequence of application – Adhesor-73 > AnilineTop-21G > Protector-B+


>>> And lastly (for now, haha) what exact process to get that area ready for topcoat would I go through since I have already put protector on it? I want to order the two 60ml of topcoat 21 (gloss and matte) and some more protector along with anything like adhesor, etc that I will need.

Protector-B+ imparts a non-stick property to the leather – thus anything you want to stick it to the leather will have a problem thereafter. Protector-B+ can either be stripped with Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier or Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0. (see guide for sequence of process).

jefflaws
11-30-2013, 04:13 PM
Sprayed cleaner 3.8 on it and absorbed with a towel, sprayed rinse 3.0 and absorbed and let dry for a couple hours. Then I used a foam brush to spread a light coat of adhesor 73 on and after another hour did two coats of topcoat 21G about an hour apart. That was about 8 hours ago and so far I'm satisfied with how looks and feels. I think it will lighten up in color with use that stretches it a little.

Roger Koh
12-01-2013, 05:23 PM
Tips:
Preparation cleaning is either with Degreaser-2.2 > Acidififer-2.0 or Rinse-3.0 system or Prep-4.4 > Clean-3.8>Rinse-3.0 system – the dried surface is work with Eraser-4 thoroughly to remove surface soiling prior to surface repairing with Adhesor-73.

The surface appearance can be work out by stretching to lighten up in-between application of Adhesor-73 and AnilineTop-21G,

Protector-B+ or B scentless will help to reduce wear with a buttery-feel.


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant
www.LeatherDoctor.com