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Thread: Two Questions: revive white Chanel caviar with dye transfer and fixing dent in black Chanel caviar quilting

  1. #1
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    Default Two Questions: revive white Chanel caviar with dye transfer and fixing dent in black Chanel caviar quilting

    Hello Roger,

    I've diligently read your responses and I think I have a good start to what I should be doing. But for my peace of mind and since this is my first time ever doing anything like this (and on my expensive purses too!) I would like to verify my process with you.

    I have the Kit-P3 - Pigmented Leather Care Kit (Protector B+ leather scented) in my shopping cart. I believe this should suffice for both my situations? Let me clarify below:

    Situation #1) Revive white Chanel caviar with dye transfer on the back, and slight yellowing allover due to oils/dirt from use. Do you recommend that I add CleanStrong 4.3 to the kit? Ideally I want to spend as little as possible but if you truly recommend the product then I will add it to the kit. My process to clean the dye transfer and yellowing of the caviar leather is: Prep 7.7 (because this is not as absorbent as lambskin as you've mentioned in one response to another poster) > Clean 3.8 > Rinse 3.0 > Hydrator 3.3 > Fatliquor 3.0 > Protectors B+. I see you listed that the Micro-Top 54 M/D is necessary but why is it? Is it to add the "sheen" back to the caviar leather? My apologies for the questions as I just want to know what each product adds to the process. Is there a kit that includes all the items I need (adds the CleanStrong 4.3 and Micro-Top 54 M/D)?

    Situation #2) There is a small dent on one of the caviar quilts due to improper storage that I would like to fix. I understand this can be fixed using the hydrator and fatliquor which will puff up the quilting. My process would be to use hydrator to soak through and massage the dent with my fingers until liquid squeezes out clean; then while wet, add fat liquor rand cover with saran or cling wrap for better absorption over 72 hours with repeated applications of fatliquor. After I will finish would add Protector B+. Have I included everything? If I want to restore the shine to caviar is Protector B+ enough?

    Thanks so much Roger!! I'm having so much fun learning about the leather cleaning process

  2. #2
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    Good if you have picture for my reference . . .

  3. #3
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    >>> Situation #1) Revive white Chanel caviar with dye transfer on the back, and slight yellowing allover due to oils/dirt from use. Do you recommend that I add CleanStrong 4.3 to the kit? Ideally I want to spend as little as possible but if you truly recommend the product then I will add it to the kit.

    No! You do not need CleanStrong-4.3, Prep-7.7 suffices.


    >>> My process to clean the dye transfer and yellowing of the caviar leather is: Prep 7.7 (because this is not as absorbent as lambskin as you've mentioned in one response to another poster) > Clean 3.8 > Rinse 3.0 > Hydrator 3.3 > Fatliquor 3.0 > Protectors B+.

    This is a standard for non-absorbent pigmented leathers.


    >>> I see you listed that the Micro-Top 54 M/D is necessary but why is it? Is it to add the "sheen" back to the caviar leather? My apologies for the questions as I just want to know what each product adds to the process.

    In a dye transfer situation, there is sometimes lots of rubbing and the topcoat may be worn out or weak topcoat being removed in the process. Without a matching topcoat the clean areas my looks dull. And anyway the topcoat seals the color coat. Without the topcoat back in place, the leather gets dirtier faster and further rubbing wears out the color coating. So these are the micron layers over each other that will need one another to build back the original finishes system. Without the MicroTop-54 the leather may feels tacky when damp as the finishes weakens.


    >>> Is there a kit that includes all the items I need (adds the CleanStrong 4.3 and Micro-Top 54 M/D)?

    You just add MicroTop-54 from this link to match the luster of the leather:
    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/microtop-54/


    >>> Situation #2) There is a small dent on one of the caviar quilts due to improper storage that I would like to fix. I understand this can be fixed using the hydrator and fatliquor which will puff up the quilting.

    “Caviar” is a texture fashion design, which is embossed by heat plating with high pressure. And over hydrating may relax these tension as well - thus the caviar may disappear.

    The dent is also cause by pressure, but may be without heat, thus is weaker compared with the caviar heat/pressurized texture.

    The relaxing process have to go between the dent and the caviar otherwise you relax both, which you do not want.


    >>> My process would be to use hydrator to soak through and massage the dent with my fingers until liquid squeezes out clean; then while wet, add fat liquor rand cover with saran or cling wrap for better absorption over 72 hours with repeated applications of fatliquor.


    Remember the story about “Goldilocks and the Three Bears”. Be gentle and treat this caviar leather as the “baby bear”. As soon as the dent disappear, fatliquor it, and its done. No wrapping, no 72 hours - that may be reserved for the “papa bear”.


    >>> After I will finish would add Protector B+. Have I included everything? If I want to restore the shine to caviar is Protector B+ enough?

    To restore the shine luster you will need MicroTop-54G or AnilineTop-76G (heavy duty).


    >>> Thanks so much Roger!! I'm having so much fun learning about the leather cleaning process


    It was my curiosity that turns out to be a business for me. This system is exactly what the tannery system practice and still kept it a secret until I reveal it. So the truth is out. Very soon you will find doing leather cleaning for your friends, and friend’s friends - and you will have more fun with leather and hopefully more fund in your pocket as well.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  4. #4
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    Thanks Roger for your helpful and prompt advice - really appreciate it and your forum

    Here are the photos you were requesting - do you think the advice you gave me still stands after seeing the photos?

    For sure the white bag will require a new top coat but I think I will use Aniline Top 76G. If I use this, I don't need to use MicroTop 54G correct?

    For dents, do you suggest I try rubbing it out? The dent is not very obvious (on the black bag the quilting on the upper left corner has a little dent) but I wanted to try rubbing out the dent but if it will cause the caviar texture to weaken then I may be afraid to do this. However from what you wrote, the caviar is heat pressure created so technically it will be harder to rub out with hydrator, correct?

    Thanks again Roger! Name:  IMG_9394.JPG
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  5. #5
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    Hi Roger, based on my photos on the white caviar bag, do I need a degreaser and acidifier? Can I just use Clean Super and Clean 3.8 and then rinse with Rinse 3.0 instead? Or is it better to buy Degreaser > Acidifier > Clean 3.8 > Rinse 3.0 (no Clean Super)? I was hoping Clean Super would replace using Degreaser and Acidifier. I think it's possible the darkening of the white leather is due to grease/oil from hands/dirt/UV darkening so I'm not sure what the best way to clean the bag is.. Thanks so much Roger

  6. #6
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    >>> Here are the photos you were requesting - do you think the advice you gave me still stands after seeing the photos?

    Really can’t tell if the leather is “pigmented” or “patent”. It will works on standard pigmented leather. Patent leather has the extra thicker high gloss and it will sucks dye stain below the surface that cleaning product can’t reach, thus not able to remove them. The purplish tint is probably dye stain transfer. Anyway, give it a go with Prep-7.7 and the last resort you may try with UV light that will bleach it off. Tips: When applying Prep-7.7 try not to push them into the stitching holes. Use plenty of Clean-3.8 and Rinse-3.0 to removed any residue until it produces a healthy squeak. If Rinse-3.0 does not, then follows with Acidifier-2.0 until you achieve a healthy squeak feel when wet. This healthy strengthen the pH chemistry of both the finishes and the leather structure through the stitching holes. Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 along the stitching rows will help prevent cracking to these holes.


    >>> For sure the white bag will require a new topcoat but I think I will use Aniline Top 76G. If I use this, I don't need to use MicroTop 54G correct?

    Yes! They serve the same purpose, but the AnilineTop-76G is the heavy duty and gets the gloss with less coating. To reduce streaks for the final coating, you may thin it ratio 1: 1 with distilled water. To reduce streaks you may wash your fine brushes after each coating. It is the drying topcoat from the brushes that causes any unwanted streaks.


    >>> For dents, do you suggest I try rubbing it out? The dent is not very obvious (on the black bag the quilting on the upper left corner has a little dent) but I wanted to try rubbing out the dent but if it will cause the caviar texture to weaken then I may be afraid to do this. However from what you wrote, the caviar is heat pressure created so technically it will be harder to rub out with hydrator, correct?

    Yes! So technically there is still a safe zone for you to work out with Hydrator-3.3 - just don’t over do it. Keep a good watch from start to finish and that will be save enough.

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  7. #7
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    >>> Hi Roger, based on my photos on the white caviar bag, do I need a degreaser and acidifier?

    No! You will need Prep-7.7 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 system.


    >>> Can I just use Clean Super and Clean 3.8 and then rinse with Rinse 3.0 instead?


    The CleanSuper-4.9 looses out in strength to the Prep-7.7 - thus you waste the product with mediocre result.


    >>> Or is it better to buy Degreaser > Acidifier > Clean 3.8 > Rinse 3.0 (no Clean Super)?


    Unlikely, the stains are penetrated grease, oil and sweat - thus wrong match for the leather type in question.


    >>> I was hoping Clean Super would replace using Degreaser and Acidifier.

    Not on this application.


    >>> I think it's possible the darkening of the white leather is due to grease/oil from hands/dirt/UV darkening so I'm not sure what the best way to clean the bag is.


    Stick to my recommendation (Prep-7.7 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 system) - will save you time with better result. Otherwise you can try it out your way for learning sake!


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  8. #8
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    Thanks Roger!

    The leather is shiny but it definitely is not patent leather. I applied Leather Therapy conditioner on it and I know it has a lot of fat in the conditioner so maybe that is why it is so shiny (almost like patent leather).

    Okay I will use the Aniline Top 76G but I will be sure to thin out the final coating with 1:1 ratio of water as you've suggested. I am not buying any additional brushes as there is a foam brush from your P3 kit. I don't need an additional brush do I? If so, what type of brush should I get? Also someone else wrote that they sanded in between layers so I think I will try that too... Is the purpose of sanding in between layers of top coat to get even application? I have added Sand-2000 from your Leather Doctor store to my shopping cart just in case I need it.

  9. #9
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    Hi Roger, I want to dye the white bag after cleaning to a brighter white - what dye should I use for this type of leather? It is the grained caviar Chanel leather (not patent). Also will applying more layers of dye give me a brighter white or it doesn't matter how many layers since it is opaque?

  10. #10
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    >>> Hi Roger, I want to dye the white bag after cleaning to a brighter white - what dye should I use for this type of leather?

    There are two options

    1- Standard pigment white with Acrylic Binder. Acrylic has less chances of turning yellow then the standard urethane based pigment.

    2- Add a tint of blue to the white from this shading examples:
    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/color-p...ding-examples/


    >>> It is the grained caviar Chanel leather (not patent).

    Do a water droplet test to see if it is absorbing and appearance darkens - if so use the Napa-84 system.
    If water droplets pools on its surface then use Micro-54 acrylic system (Adhesor > Color Coating > Top Coating - special order).


    >>> Also will applying more layers of dye give me a brighter white or it doesn't matter how many layers since it is opaque?

    The thinner the coating the finer the finishes - otherwise it looks too artificial and is more prone to mud cracking.



    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  11. #11
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    Thanks Roger, I just placed my order with you - however, I think I should have added Leather Doctor® d’Yellow-6.7 in 40gm - do you suggest this? I read in another thread that you suggested this to another poster, saying it will brighten the white bag. If I should get it, can I add it so you can ship it together? Please let me know if you recommend it, thanks!

  12. #12
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    >>> I think I should have added Leather Doctor® d’Yellow-6.7 in 40gm - do you suggest this? I read in another thread that you suggested this to another poster, saying it will brighten the white bag.

    This product is discontinued. I will let you know when a replacement is ready.

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