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Thread: Need help with some Aniline King Ranch leather.

  1. #1
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    Default Need help with some Aniline King Ranch leather.

    So Ive bought some of your stuff a little big ago, but looking to rethink my process here. This is what I own now:

    Hydrator 3.3
    Rinse 3.0
    Clean 3.8
    FatLiquor 5.0
    Protector B+

    The leather isnt that bad. Ive used waterbased and oil based conditioners on them over the years.

    There is a few areas that are darker from sweat, but overall they are nice. VERY few minor creases and no REAL surface cracking. Nothing that looks like 'dry mud' cracking. The back seats are just feeling a bit dry, no stains or marks etc. Its just on the front seats and the armrests a little bit.

    Im thinking that I will need Acidifer 2.0 and Degreaser 2.2 too, right?

    If you can lay me out a plan like you did here in this post: http://www.leathercleaningrestoratio...0721#post10721

    you gave him step 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5 . If you could do something like that for me, Id appreciate it. Also a set plan for the areas that are NOT soiled, and just need light cleaning and fatliquoring.

    Also I have some Towel-5 and Brush-1. I would guess I would need to do several reverse transfer to get the dirt off. so if you would line that up in steps using each product, please do.
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  2. #2
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    I guess no help is available from Roger...?

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    Help will come accordingly!

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    Thanks. I want to place my other order, I'm going to need more supplies

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    >>> The leather isn’t that bad. I’ve used waterbased and oil based conditioners on them over the years.

    Recommend that any surface aftermarket residue especially oil based surface conditioners need to be degreased, otherwise it may interfere with AnilineTop-76G adhesion. Recommended to remove with Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system.


    >>> There is a few areas that are darker from sweat, but overall they are nice.

    These few darker sweat areas need to inspect for leather denaturing - tackiness or sliminess is a sign and will need Acidifier-2.0 treatment until the same squeakiness as other non-sweat exposed areas.


    >>> VERY few minor creases and no REAL surface cracking. Nothing that looks like 'dry mud' cracking.

    The weakest part of the leather other then direct alkaline overexposure are the stitching rows. Look for elongated needle holes - a sign of shrinkage and, wet and drying back without sufficient Fatliquor-5.0 (average 15% of fat an oil) may further accelerate the shrinkage and when the elongation meets, the leather can easily rip apart by stress.


    >>> The back seats are just feeling a bit dry, no stains or marks etc. It’s just on the front seats and the armrests a little bit.

    Treat them accordingly to bring up the best in leather structural pH chemistry integrity and appearance to your satisfaction.


    >>> I’m thinking that I will need Acidifer-2.0 and Degreaser-2.2 too, right?


    Yes!


    >>> Also I have some Towel-5 and Brush-1. I would guess I would need to do several reverse transfer to get the dirt off. So if you would line that up in steps using each product, please do.

    You would also need Leather Eraser-4 to work out old conditioners during the degreasing process.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 05-04-2017 at 04:46 PM.

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    >>> Also a set plan for the areas that are NOT soiled, and just need light cleaning and fatliquoring.

    Procedure will be the same for heavy and light cleaning, by adjusting the intensity and concentration - makes the process easier in one go then separate cleaning plan.


    >>> If you can lay me out a plan like you did here in this post: http://www.leathercleaningrestoratio...0721#post10721 you gave him step 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5 . If you could do something like that for me, I’d appreciate it.

    Recommended Comprehensive System Sequence:

    Eraser-4 > Prep-4.4 > Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 > Eraser-4 > AnilineTop-76G/S > Protector-B/B+

    Let me know if you understand the above product sequence and its purpose before we go further.
    And do some read-up of each of the above-mentioned products from the on-line store and make some clarify before I give you the sequence of step.
    Example Hydrator-3.3
    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/hydrator-3-3/

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

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    Thanks Roger, I do.

    But I'm not going to use the top coat. I'm okay with slight lightening of the leathers color. I prefer to not dye them. So in thay case I won't need the prep, the eraser, the dye or the degreaser.

    I'll just have to clean them well and ads fatliquor back into them, right?

    Lastly I can use acidifier on areas that don't nees it and it will not hurt the seats, right?

    Can you give me a sequence without the eraser, prep, degreaser and dye?

  8. #8
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    >>> I'll just have to clean them well and ads fatliquor back into them, right?

    Yes, how do you “clean them well”? What do you mean by "well" technically?


    >>> Lastly I can use acidifier on areas that don't nees it and it will not hurt the seats, right?

    Please rephrase, and I will reply.


    >>> Can you give me a sequence without the eraser, prep, degreaser and dye?

    AnilineTop-76/86 is not a dye, it is a non-yellowing urethane topcoats that seals the leather for better wear (so instead of wearing the grains of the leather, the topcoat is first wear off and in your picture #2 if you “clean them well” the deteriorating topcoat may also be removed thus appears a dull appearance when dry.
    I have already recommend the sequence, you make your own modification accordingly - which ever option you take mine or yours, you are not going to hurt the seat - it is just the degree of satisfaction - I am a perfectionist and not everyone share my opinion. As long as the seat are not hurt and you are happy with the result that matters!

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 05-05-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  9. #9
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    Thanks.

    By cleaning well I mean, using hydrator 3.3 and acidifier only...


    Can I use acidifier on the whole seat? Or can it only be used on areas that experienced sweat?

    What does protector b do? When applying the urethane top coat , is it hard or easy?

    Will the fatliquor darken the leather some after cleaning? Will the leather get lighter after using the hydrator ? I'm afraid it will get very light in color.

  10. #10
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    >>> By cleaning well I mean, using hydrator 3.3 and acidifier only...

    Take a look at this Leather Problem Solving Guide and see the sequence of step for each level of soil and stain removal
    Name:  aniline-a.k-king-ranch-leathers.jpg
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    >>> Can I use acidifier on the whole seat? Or can it only be used on areas that experienced sweat?


    Acidifier-2.0 main function is to pH balance any alklaline overexposure and sweat is one contribution to alkaline over exposure. So, where there is sweat there is also body grease and oil - thus this Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 recommended.


    >>> Or can it only be used on areas that experienced sweat?

    Acidifier-2.0 with a pH value of 2.0 is ten times more ionic negative then Rinse-3.0, which only have a pH value of 3.0. Leather structure has a pH value of about 3 to 5 and vegetable-tanned leather is about a point lower in pH value.
    Both Acidifier-2.0 and Rinse-3.0 does the same function but with degree of intensity.


    >>> What does protector b do?

    Protector-B protects the topcoat from friction wears with a soft buttery-feel and the AnilineTop-86G/S seals the dyestuff from bleeding.


    >>> When applying the urethane topcoat, is it hard or easy?

    Just like any clear varnishing on wood, apply panel by panel with a soft varnishing brush produce sufficiently good result. Otherwise apply by airbrushing for a super fine finishing.


    >>> Will the fatliquor darken the leather some after cleaning?

    Only stuffing oil of any kind will produce a darkening effect, mainly all the pores are flooded, unlike fatliquor the pores remains breathable as it only ionic bonded with the protein fibers last longer and leather retains its original appearance and characteristic. This is what originally done in the tannery, so you just top up back the original to get back to the original leather suppleness integrity.


    >>> Will the leather get lighter after using the hydrator?

    Hydrator-3.s is a wild card in the Leather Doctor system just like the joker in a pack of cards, it can play many roles all at the same time depending on your desired result. One of its functions is to activate the original dyestuff and resurface, to rectify sunfading.


    >>> I'm afraid it will get very light in color.


    It will not get lighter but saturation in color intensity so you can adjust by the hours of dwell - long dwell is 72 hours continuous and be continuously be repeat until satisfaction for color intensity.

    Besides these theories, what you need is to experience it.

    >>> I guess no help is available from Roger...?

    Now you understand that help is almost instantly, because I am at the computer. Otherwise I have other work to do as well. Special private help is $US99 an hour and can be arrange by Skype if you wish for some emergencies.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  11. #11
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    Thanks Roger. I wasn't sure if you were still around, that's all.

    I'm going to place my order here soon... Thanks.


    Can protector-B be used without Aniline Topcoat 76s? Or will it not work correctly since there is no urethane top coat ( aniline top76s )

    So from Degreaser I go directly into Acidifer, hydrator, fatliquor,then lastly Protector B? What is the dwell time for degreaser? Then when should I apply the Acidifer? How long should the Acidifer sit on the seat? Then how long to follow up with Hydrator? Im going to use this on the sweat areas that are darkened.

    Do I need degreaser, or will Clean or Acidifier or Hydrator help remove some of the dark sweat areas? I know as you said you are perfectionist, but if the seats come out cleaner than they are now, I will be happy. Then just maintain with Hydrator and FatLiqiuor for now on.

    The other areas, Im going to clean using your Periodic Care steps: Clean3.8-Rinse3.0-Hydrator3.3-FatLiquor-Hydrator3.3-Protector-B

    On the Hydrator 3.3 concentrate ( 60ml ) how many ounces does it make?
    Last edited by KR2006; 05-05-2017 at 09:35 PM.

  12. #12
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    >>> Can protector-B be used without Aniline Topcoat 76s? Or will it not work correctly since there is no urethane top coat (aniline top76s )

    In every cycle of care in the leathers life time, Protector-B/B+ is always there, thus used as you wish.


    >>> So from Degreaser I go directly into Acidifer, hydrator, fatliquor, and then lastly Protector B?

    Yes the Protector-B is used as the last step and the leather is ready to used when dry.


    >>> What is the dwell time for degreaser?

    Apply, work with LeatherBrush-1 to spread out and erase with LeatherEraser-4 then extract suspended soiling with a clean white terry towel, until the towel shows clean.


    >>> Then when should I apply the Acidifer?

    Acidifier-2.0 is applied immediately and go through with Brush-1 and Eraser-4 and then extract suspended soiling with a clean white terry towel, until the towel shows clean.


    >>> How long should the Acidifer sit on the seat?

    Acidifier-2.0 has two functions one is for rinsing the suspended residue and the other is to pH balance the leather of alkaline overexposure for the sweat. Inspect the surface of the leather with hand or fingers to detect for any tackiness or sliminess, which indicates that the leather is denaturing, thus the dwelling into the leather structure is recommended and testing periodically until the leather returns to the same squeaky feeling as the surrounding non-alkaline overexposure areas. Surface is wipe or towel extract with a clean white terry towel, until the towel shows clean.


    >>> Then how long to follow up with Hydrator?

    When the leather pH chemistry returns to normal and any sticky or slimy tactile feeling is gone - Hydrator-3.3 commence while the leather is still damp not below 25% of total moisture content.


    >>> I’m going to use this on the sweat areas that are darkened. Do I need degreaser, or will Clean or Acidifier or Hydrator help remove some of the dark sweat areas?

    Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system recommended.


    >>> I know as you said you are perfectionist, but if the seats come out cleaner than they are now, I will be happy. Then just maintain with Hydrator and FatLiqiuor for now on.


    Two issue, appearance and pH chemistry integrity. Appearance can be compromise, pH chemistry integrity when compromise the leather integrity suffers.


    >>> The other areas, Im going to clean using your Periodic Care steps: Clean3.8-Rinse3.0-Hydrator3.3-FatLiquor-Hydrator3.3-Protector-B.

    For appearance management you can do as you wish. Leather pH chemistry integrity is prudence to stick with the science and logic behind the cleaning.


    >>> On the Hydrator 3.3 concentrate ( 60ml ) how many ounces does it make?


    Hydrator-3.3 concentrates ratio mix is 1: 25 parts of distilled water - thus 60ml x 25 = the ready-to-use solution.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

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    What is the Leather eraser-4 exactly? Just some sandpaper? Wont the eraser change the appearance of the seat, this I should use the eraser over the whole seat.. Right?

    The Eraser is used to help remove the slime that will show when removing sweat areas?

  14. #14
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    >>> What is the Leather eraser-4 exactly?

    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/leathereraser-4/


    >>> Just some sandpaper?

    No sandpaper of any kind including 'Magic Eraser' is to be used for cleaning.


    >>> Wont the eraser change the appearance of the seat, this I should use the eraser over the whole seat.. Right?


    To remove sticky residue to improve appearance concentrating on soiling areas and whole seat to remove aged and unwanted conditrioners.


    >>> The Eraser is used to help remove the slime that will show when removing sweat areas?

    Right!

  15. #15
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    Roger,
    I finally got around to getting the work in on the seats, the nice weather finally set in. I used several different products and the back seats are looking great. The fronts, not so much. They are very dark. What I did last night was soaked in Hydrator, covered in the paper towels from you and covered in plastic wrap. Then I removed the plastic wrap and let it dry 100%. Do the seats possibly have some residual wetness to them, which is making it dark looking? Should I clean with 3,8 again to remove possible surface dirt that was not picked up by the paper towel?

    Also on the back seats, I dont see really any residual Fatliquor on the surface, which to me could mean that they are still not 100% saturated. Should I apply more? If so, do I just wet the surface with more hydrator ( just to dampen it ), let it sit and then apply more fat liquor? Or is there another method on how to reapply more fatliquor once I've applied it altready.

    Thanks

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    >>> I used several different products and the back seats are looking great. The fronts, not so much. They are very dark. What I did last night was soaked in Hydrator, covered in the paper towels from you and covered in plastic wrap. Then I removed the plastic wrap and let it dry 100%. Do the seats possibly have some residual wetness to them, which is making it dark looking?

    The darkness may be due to wetness or it could be due to penetrated soiling particulates that resurface through the wicking process. You may use the leatherEraser-4 to work over it to remove it. You may stretch the leather a little to reveal a light appearance as well. Darkness may be due to overwhelming alkaline residue from previous non leather-safe cleaning that resurface - use Acidifier-2.0 to neutralize it will reduce the darkening effect as well - Tips alkaline darkens and acidic lightens leather. Leather has a pH value between 3 to 5 and vegetable-tanned leather has a lower pH value and that’s is why alkaline cleaning products darkens it.

    Show some pictures of how dark it is . . .


    >>> Should I clean with 3,8 again to remove possible surface dirt that was not picked up by the paper towel?

    If you wish to re-clean, determine the soiling type so that the product matches your intent. Hydrator-3.3 is to move already suspended soiling to resurface, and perhaps you may need a few soil movement to the surface accordingly.


    >>> Also on the back seats, I dont see really any residual Fatliquor on the surface, which to me could mean that they are still not 100% saturated. Should I apply more? If so, do I just wet the surface with more hydrator ( just to dampen it ), let it sit and then apply more fat liquor? Or is there another method on how to reapply more fatliquor once I've applied it altready.

    If there is no residual sheen on the surface, it indicates all the fatliquor have been exhausted and may need more is correct. Use Hydrator-3.3 and wipe over and observed that it is wet out evenly without any blotchy appearance, then apply the Fatliquor-5.0 evenly absorbed as well. An even Fatliquor-5.0 absorbency will also produce an even appearance result when dry. Any residue is then further clean off with Hydrator-3.3 to reduce any sticky surfaces. When dry proceed with Protector-B/B+ and when dry, it is done and ready for use.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Roger Koh;21551]

    The darkness may be due to wetness or it could be due to penetrated soiling particulates that resurface through the wicking process. You may use the leatherEraser-4 to work over it to remove it. You may stretch the leather a little to reveal a light appearance as well. Darkness may be due to overwhelming alkaline residue from previous non leather-safe cleaning that resurface - use Acidifier-2.0 to neutralize it will reduce the darkening effect as well - Tips alkaline darkens and acidic lightens leather. Leather has a pH value between 3 to 5 and vegetable-tanned leather has a lower pH value and that’s is why alkaline cleaning products darkens it.

    Show some pictures of how dark it is . . .

    >>> I will get some picutres of darkness. What can I do about surface cracking? Its not deep, but feels like rough skin. Do I soak in Acidifier several times to help reduce darkness? This will take multiple applications, correct?


    If you wish to re-clean, determine the soiling type so that the product matches your intent. Hydrator-3.3 is to move already suspended soiling to resurface, and perhaps you may need a few soil movement to the surface accordingly.

    >>> I just placed a new order for two more large bottles of Hydrator3.3, to Md. Im trying to get the wicking down with the towels. I dont think IM getting it tight enough to pull off surface.


    If there is no residual sheen on the surface, it indicates all the fatliquor have been exhausted and may need more is correct. Use Hydrator-3.3 and wipe over and observed that it is wet out evenly without any blotchy appearance, then apply the Fatliquor-5.0 evenly absorbed as well. An even Fatliquor-5.0 absorbency will also produce an even appearance result when dry. Any residue is then further clean off with Hydrator-3.3 to reduce any sticky surfaces. When dry proceed with Protector-B/B+ and when dry, it is done and ready for use.

    >>>What does the Blotchy appearance mean? Is that bad? Hydrator will remove blotchy appearance and help to drive/push surface fat into leather, right? Will another light application of Hydrator3.3 push out the fat in the elather ( the back seats ) ? Or will it help it to stay suspended within the leather and not drive it out?

  18. #18
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    >>> I will get some pictures of darkness. Do I soak in Acidifier several times to help reduce darkness? This will take multiple applications, correct?

    If the darkness is due to past usage of non leather-safe products which has a pH value above 7. The residues may still be there and need to be neutralized and flush it to the surface. Soak it with Acidifier-2.0 (pH value 2.0 to lighten up alkalinity overexposure) and use Towel-5 to stretch it out as an extension of the surface to pull the residue through to the towel versus still remaining on the leather surface. When crispy dry use Eraser-4 to remove any remaining residue on the leather surface.


    >>> What can I do about surface cracking? It’s not deep, but feels like rough skin.

    Use Hydrator-3.3 to relax the roughness and replenished with Fatliquor-5.0 will reduces the rough skin effect.


    >>> I just placed a new order for two more large bottles of Hydrator3.3, to Md. Im trying to get the wicking down with the towels. I don’t think IM getting it tight enough to pull off surface.

    Please show some pictures if you are getting it tight (stretch out the Towel-5 while it is wet with the horsehair Brush-1).


    >>>What does the Blotchy appearance mean?

    Blotchy appearance mean uneven surface tension, where water pools on the surface indicates some kind of oily film or grease content or even past use of water repellent.


    >>> Is that bad?
    The blotchy appearance is amplified after Fatliquor-5.0 (also indicates uneven softening of the leather surface).


    >>> Hydrator will remove blotchy appearance and help to drive/push surface fat into leather, right?

    Depends on how severe the blotchiness appears and to get it right use Degreaser-2.2 > Acidifier-2.0 system.


    >>> Will another light application of Hydrator-3.3 push out the fat in the lather ( the back seats ) ? Or will it help it to stay suspended within the leather and not drive it out?

    Fatliquor-5.0 is an ionic negative (-ve) charged fat and oil, and it bonds with the ionic positive (+ve) charged leather protein fiber. Hydrator-3.3 has a pH value of 3.3 and is slightly below the leather pH neutral of 3 - 5, thus charges the protein fiber ionic more positive (+ve). It increases the hydrogen bonding more then it weakens it

    Tips:
    The reason for a low pH value of the Degreaser-2.2 (pH 2.2) and Acidifier-2.0 (pH 2.0) is partly to reduce darkening effect from alkalinity and also to charge the leather protein fiber ionic positive (+ve) for hydrogen bonding with Fatliquor-5.0 (pH 5.0 ionic negative -ve).

    Tips:
    Sun Tanning effect on vegetable-tanned leathers is lightens with Vachetta-2.8 (pH 2.8). This is a redox (reduction-oxidation) product that is brushed applied when the leather is dried and leave to dry for the desired lightening result.

  19. #19
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    The seats are not as bad as they seem here, but the areas marked with the red arrows are darker and a bit too dark for me to live with it. Now Ive spent over $650 to get these seats looking good and Im about at whits end here. Ive been reading and doing as directed but I cannot get the darker areas lighter. I know this was an experiment and I accept the failure. Im not blaming you, but I think that these products are a bit too hard for the average joe to tackle big jobs. Light cleaning, and fatliquoring is easy. But it is a lot of money wasted if it does not come out right. Im okay with the patina of the seats, the slight darkening of them if its even looking. But the dark dark side panels dont look well.

    Ive seen people use industrial degreasers on the leather, sand paper and then redye and they look brand new. Maybe I should've gone that route. Granted Im sure that is not the best/safest way for the leather, but looks like it comes out almost perfect each time.

    Anyway, here are some images... I dont know what else to do. I cant keep spending more and more money to try and get these seats correct.

    Thanks Roger.

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  20. #20
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    Any suggestions? I wanna either get it fatliquored or maybe something else, if you have suggestions. My last post has yet to be approved. It said it needed your approval to be postes

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    >>> Any suggestions?

    The answer may lies somewhere on Row E1 of this Leather Problem Solving Matrix/Guide.
    Vachetta-2.8 is a redox (reduction-oxidation) reaction and is developed to treat patina from UV causes or browning effect. Depending on severity, repeat treatment may be required to achieve the desired result after drying and residue to rinse off with Acidifier-2.0. It is recommend that a test is performed for its effectiveness prior. Coloring to camouflage may be the last resort and Adhesor-73 is used to ensure adhesion. Micro-54 an opaque pigment blocks off unwanted darkening so that a lighter color intensity from the transparent coating dyestuff Aniline-76 may be used. Gloss appearance is achieve with AnilineTop-76G and finishes protection from rubs is with Protector-B/B+

    Tips:
    Using Eraser-4, fine 2000grit sanding (only a compromise certainly damages the grain to a degree and has to be top coated thereafter - any damages is permanent).


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com
    Last edited by Roger Koh; 07-13-2017 at 10:21 AM.

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