Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: 2006 Passat - Water and Sun Dried Damaged Leather Seats

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    558

    Default 2006 Passat - Water and Sun Dried Damaged Leather Seats

    Hi,
    I have a 2006 Passat, with leather seats.
    Yes, we left sunroof open, rained, and seats had a puddle of water on them.
    I dried them off, and did a big mistake.
    I sun dried them.
    Now instead of leather I have a shrunken cardboard seat.
    Do you have any solution for this?
    I was able to obtain the same sets from a salvage yard, but these also must have gotten wet, and dried wrong.

    I took some pictures of three different seats.

    2 of which are in the car, and the other one is the one I bought in a salvage yard.
    To each set of pictures I will explain what happened to get them that way.
    If you could tell me which product I should use for what and if any remedy exists in your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

    Pictures 1962 & 1963:
    Name:  IMG_1962.JPG
Views: 185
Size:  1.99 MB

    Name:  IMG_1963.JPG
Views: 225
Size:  2.51 MB
    This happened using a foam cleaner, I think the foam somehow got in the stitches underneath, and just hardened that part of the leather.

    Picture 1965:
    Name:  IMG_1965.JPG
Views: 169
Size:  3.64 MB
    Not really sure what happened there, if it was only water, or if it also happened when cleaning the seats with that prior cleaner I used on pics 62&63

    Picture 1965:
    Is that backrest of the seat that got water soaked, and then dried quickly in sun. Probably did not have direct sunrays shining at it.

    Picture 1966 & 1967:

    Name:  IMG_1966.JPG
Views: 147
Size:  4.20 MB

    Name:  IMG_1967.JPG
Views: 131
Size:  3.56 MB
    This is the bottom seat, which got soaked. I dried it up with a rag, and put in direct sun light to dry. It got rock hard, do I took it off the seat, and soaked it in water and neatsfoot oil, then I tried to stretch it and let dry in shade. It did loosen it up some, but not much.

    Picture 1968:
    Name:  IMG_1968.JPG
Views: 151
Size:  2.93 MBThis is my rear seat, and suddenly this spot appeared, and it seems to have grown. The dark area is hard. I have no idea what that could be.

    OK, The following pictures are from the seat I bought at a salvage yard.
    Pictures 1969 – 1970
    Name:  IMG_1969.JPG
Views: 157
Size:  1.74 MB

    Name:  IMG_1970.JPG
Views: 195
Size:  2.57 MB
    When I was sent pictures of these seats they looked in perfect condition, but when I received the seats they looked like this. They told me initial pictures were taken 6 months ago. I suspect these seats got wet.

    Do you also have a dye, I could use to fix the seat in picture 1969?

    Any possible help?
    Thank you, Nicolas
    Last edited by Questions!; 10-27-2016 at 01:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
    Posts
    4,788

    Default

    >>> Pictures 1962 & 1963: This happened using a foam cleaner, I think the foam somehow got in the stiches underneath, and just hardened that part of the leather.

    The cross section of the needle holes and beneath are suede and are pH sensitive thus any cleaner not safe for suede cleaning will cause the tanning agents and fatliquor (fat and oil) to leach out of the fiber structure, thus cause the shrinkage. Always check the pH value of the cleaner, leather-safe is between 3 and 5, otherwise they have to be pH balance accordingly back to its original pH value of 3 to 5.
    Cleaning and pH balancing is by CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system and leather rejuvenating it by Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system.


    >>> Picture 1965: Not really sure what happened there, if it was only water, or if it also happened when cleaning the seats with that prior cleaner I used on pics 62&63

    The shrinkage has cause shriveling of the finishes. Most likely the same causes where liquid goes into the stitching holes and goes sidewards.


    >>>Picture 1966 & 1967: This is the bottom seat, which got soaked. I dried it up with a rag, and put in direct sun light to dry. It got rock hard, do I took it off the seat, and soaked it in water and neatsfoot oil, then I tried to stretch it and let dry in shade. It did loosen it up some, but not much.


    Same as above mentioned - Cleaning and pH balancing is by CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system and leather rejuvenating it by Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system. Neatsfoot oil is not used in the original tanning process thus not comparable; on its own, it is a non-polar oil. Original tannery setup is charging the protein fiber ionic positive (+ve) so that the ionic negative (-ve) fatliquor hydrogen bonds with the protein fiber for suppleness. When you introduce the Neatsfoot oil, it will contaminate the leather structure ionic bonding system.


    >>> Picture 1968: This is my rear seat, and suddenly this spot appeared, and it seems to have grown. The dark area is hard. I have no idea what that could be.

    Water here is not entire clean as it picks up other residue as it re-surface, depending if the water have pass through any metal parts, this could be rust and removed with CleanTarnish-1.3 > Bassifier-8.8 system. If it has pick up plants and vegetables residues then CleanTannin-3.5 is used, both redox (reduction-oxidation) reaction to vanishes the stains.


    >>> OK, The following pictures are from the seat I bought at a salvage yard.
    Pictures 1969 – 1970
    When I was sent pictures of these seats they looked in perfect condition, but when I received the seats they looked like this. They told me initial pictures were taken 6 months ago. I suspect these seats got wet. Do you also have a dye, I could use to fix the seat in picture 1969?


    An ‘opaque’ micro-pigment is used instead with Adhesor-73 > Micro-54 > MicroTop-54M > Protector-B or B+ system. The surface has to be wet prep with Prep-7.7 > Clean-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 (this preparation will remove all accumulated soiling including dye transfer stains - otherwise the dye stain will resurface and spoil the appearance). Thereafter Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 before a new application of color system.

    Here is an example of color shading
    Name:  colorshading-31-40.jpg
Views: 191
Size:  267.7 KB

    Use this Pigmented (P.a) Auto Leather Problem Solving Matrix as reference.
    Name:  pigmented-p.a-auto.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  318.4 KB

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
    Posts
    4,788

    Default

    >>> So, what is the next step. Can you put together a package that will cover all the events:

    Water and Sun Dried leather damages will require this Kit-At5.ws system
    Name:  Kit-At6.ws.JPG
Views: 153
Size:  1.49 MB
    Leather Doctor® Kit At5.ws, auto leather rain and sun stiffness restoration kit is formulated to restore leather stiffness due to water pH value related issue in combination with excess heat from the sun. Rainwater may be slightly acidic but still higher than the pH neutral (iso-electric point or pI) of leather between 3 and 5, thus causes the leather constituents to leach out especially the fatliquor (ionic negative -ve charged fat and oil), besides the tanning agent, which result in stiffness. When heat is present during the accelerated drying process it causes the leather fibrils to become stick together due to the “Van der Waal or London Forces” phenomenon. A holistic leather stiffness restoration approach is first performing a restorative cleaning prior to leather rejuvenating it and applying a rub-resistant protector thereafter. Depending on the severity of shrinkage in question, where a new color refinishing is deemed inevitable, it will require a related refinishing kit to accomplish the finish restoration. Embossing damages becomes permanent and is not practical to recreate without pressure, heat and an embossing plate. Shriveled finishes may be too delicate to work during the stretching to relax it and may result in delamination. In such situation the entire damaged panel finishes may be shaved with Razor-60 for ease of relaxing the leather structure with Hydrator-3.3 is recommended. Leather stiffness is perform after CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system with horsehair Brush-1 and cotton terry towel extraction until the towel shows clean. This restorative cleaning is formulated to remove most general soiling and pH balance the rain water to charge the amphoteric leather protein fiber ionic more positive (+ve) for increase attraction. It is thus logical that the Acidifier-2.0 reaches out to the thickness of the shrinkage. Hydrator-3.3 is the preconditioner for Fatliquor-5.0 as the shrunk leather will need to be relaxed and separate the stick together leather fibrils in order for the Fatliquor-5.0 to reach every inter connecting fibrils behaving like hinges to lubricate and plumps it when dry for the return of suppleness. Rainwater may seep into the damaged areas through the perforation, stitching rows and micro crazing. To follow the path of water damages Towel-5 acting as reservoir containing the Hydrator-3.3 is placed with evaporation control with a plastic sheet or cling wrapper. This technique ensures the Hydrator-3.3 penetrates into the leather structure instead of evaporating and wasted. The dwelling may take up to 72hours with periodic refill until the leather structure is plump with fullness for a re-stretching back to its original dimension. Stretching with a smooth spatula like the end of a spoon indirectly over a plastic sheet helps reduce friction delaminating to the finishes. When the stretching and relaxing is satisfactory Fatliquor-5.0 replenishing process begins. It is the ionic negative (-ve) charged 16.66% of fat and oil remains behind that will soften or supple up the leather when dry. The 83.33% and the water contents from the Hydrator-3.3 will eventually evaporate. The remaining fat and oil content is measurable with a leather moisture meter or other equivalent and averaging 15% would return to original suppleness. The leather is then flexed or massaged to impart suppleness without cracking it. Protector-B application will reduce friction rubs to prolong the useful life of the finishes.

    This is a three-part system that works on the water/heat stiffness.

    1) CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system,
    2) Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system and
    3) Protection-B system.

    1) CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system: Surface soiling is first removed with CleanPro-1.5 > Acidiffier-2.0 system. Clean-3.8 is the mildest among the cleaner and appropriate higher power cleaning system may be used to match severity of soiling. Example CleanPro-1.5 > Acidifier-2.0 system would increase the cleaning power and also lower the pH value to protonate or pH balance alkaline over exposure. Example, both sea water and saddle soap are alkaline pH value above 8 that may have affect the pH chemistry integrity of the leather structure and a lower pH value cleaner helps to balance the pH value to the original pH value of the leather between 3 and 5. It is recommended that surface soiling is first removed or neutralized prior to proceeding to the next step of leather rejuvenating it.

    2) Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system: Hydrator-3.3 is used to relax the stick together leather structure fibers opening it up so that the Fatliquor-5.0 can easily penetrated into the inter-fibrillary spaces plumps and lubricates it. Easy to access the thickness of the leather through the perforated and stitching holes. Dwelling up to 72hours with control evaporation is recommended to relax the fiber for easier manipulation with force stacking action using a metal spatula or spoon. The mechanical action force to stretch back the shrinkage will surely damage the surface finishes and such procedure need to consider the refinishing option. Otherwise to minimize the finishes damages the force stretching is recommended to be done on the reverse side. The shrinkage finishes is also a burden to the stretching as it holds back with stiffness and Hydrator-3.3 has no effect on it. When refinishes is an option (http://www.leatherdoctor.com/kit-ap7...finishing-kit/) than shaving off the color finishes help the leather structure to force stretch back easier. This process of undoing the shrinkage is done in combination with Fatliquor-5.0. Fatliquor helps wedges and lubricates the fiber while it is being separates. Otherwise, when the hydrator dries out before the fatliquor can takes its place the fiber may become stick together again. Leather fibers interlock one another like hinges for flexibility and like metal hinges when it gets rusted and jams tight, a rust remover with mechanical forces works in similar fashion with hydrator before a lubricant like fatliquor is applied to loosen it. Before the leather is completely dry after fatliquor replenishing, it is recommended that it is flexed and massage until it dries for the desired suppleness.


    The blue-jean dye transfer will require this Kit-Ap7.di partial system without the Bleach-9.9 > Acidifier-2.0 additional booster system
    Name:  Kit-Ap7.di.JPG
Views: 136
Size:  1.57 MB
    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/kit-ap7...n-removal-kit/
    Leather Doctor® Kit-Ap7.di, auto pigmented / perforated leather dye and ink remover kit is an innovative concept of removing blue jeans dye and ink stains featuring a “reverse transfer” technique utilizing a paper towel over the dwelling Prep-7.7. Prep-7.7. It works by penetrating, lubricating and suspending the stains on dwell time and the paper towel reverse absorb the stain instantaneously from the leather. Prior failed attempt with set-in stains may require the help of Bleach-9.9 as booster to the Prep-7.7 to remove the residual stains. Clean sticky residue with Clean-3.8, rinsed with Rinse-3.0 and pH balanced with Acidifier-2.0 when Bleach-9.9 is cooperated. Hydrator-3.3 relaxes stiff leathers prior to fat and oil replenishing. Fatliquor-5.0 rejuvenates the leather structure with softness and suppleness when dry. MicroTop-54M is an option for renewing the finish from friction wear. Protector-B imparts a non-stick rub-resistant protection with a buttery feel that shield against sticky soiling and reduce friction noises. Note that the mentioned product suffix number denotes its pH value in this holistic leather-safe dye and ink stain removal system.

    Instruction:

    Testing with Prep-7.7
    1. Cut out a piece of paper towel from the kit not bigger than our thumb size and soak it with Prep-7.7.
    2. Test it on the worst stain area and inspect every 24 hours with fresh application until the stain is gone.
    3. Observe if there is sign of stain removal, if it does, the stain will eventually be remove with repeat application.
    4. To secure the test patch from dislodging wrapped it over with see throughcling wrap.
    5. When stain is removed with satisfaction, clean off the sticky residue with Clean-3.8 follows with Rinse-3.0 until a
    squeaky-feel.
    6. The lack of a healthy squeaky feel may be the result of worn out topcoat, reapplication with MicroTop-54M is
    recommended.
    7. Apply a soak out paper towel with Acidifier-2.0 over the area until dry to strengthen the finish prior to topcoat application.
    8. When test after 72 hours shows poor response, Bleach-9.9 may be used to boost the Prep-7.7.

    Actual Application
    Repeat testing successes to the actual application.


    As for refinishing, consider this Kit-Ap7.cl and you will need extra colors to custom match.
    Name:  Kit-Ap7.cl.JPG
Views: 116
Size:  1.17 MB
    http://www.leatherdoctor.com/kit-ap7...finishing-kit/
    Leather Doctor® Kit-Ap7.cl, auto pigmented/perforated leather color refinishing kit is design for abrasion damages especially from friction rubs while getting in and out of seat. Most of these repairs may range from missing finishes to abrading damages into the leather structure. Some expose areas may be contaminated with foreign soiling that includes conditioners, protectors, body oil, grease and sweat or alkaline overexposure with all-purpose cleaners. A comprehensive repair for a long-term lasting solution will require a holistic approach to deal with both the exposed structure and surface finishes. The practical and functional softness and strength of the leather depends on the health of the structure with average thickness between 0.9 to 1.2mm from stiffness and cracking. The aesthetic aspect of the leather finishes averages 0.02mm (or 20 micron) in thickness for practical compressing and flexing from cracking. A preview of a leather-safe restoration system begins by stripping with Stripper-2.3 and rinsing with Rinse-3.0. Degreasing with Degreaser-2.2 follows with Acidifier-2.0. The suffix numbers of these four products denotes it pH value for recharging the protein fiber ionic positive besides the act of decontamination. The leather integrity is revitalized once the ionic attraction between the positive protein fiber and its negative leather constituents like the tanning agent and fatliquor (fat, oil and water) is activated. Leather rejuvenating system for softness and strength is accomplished with Hydrator-3.3 follows with Fatliquor-5.0. Structural weakness from overstretching is re-strengthened with Impregnator-26, while surface uneven absorption is sealed with Adhesor-73. These repair and auxiliary products where necessary reduces the need for color over-coating thus increase its flexibility and stretchability from premature cracking. Protector-B imparts a non-stick rub-resistant surface with a buttery feel, reduces noises that translate into less friction wear. As the leather surface is well lubricated it reduces compression when comes to heavy body contact thus reduces compressed creases and wrinkles.


    >>> ☺ Can you indicate also how much I should get of what?

    These above mentioned starter kit will need individual products to complete your project, only good for a test out to get a feel of the system. You will need at least 2 quart of Hydrator-3.3 and 1 quart Fatliquor-5.0 to work out the Water-Sun-dried leather damages. Complete a small part, then you can assess how much more you will need to complete the rest.


    >>> Last but not least, two more questions. Should I remove the leather from the seat and work from the bottom? At least with the badly seat that I did the experiment?


    Working out the leather structure from the reverse suede side is most ideal.


    >>> Once this is done, what do you recommend, I should clean the rest of the seats, and apply to get them nice and soft again?


    Try to get the sequence right; otherwise you may have to repeat all over. Lay out your approach and I will recommend.


    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    558

    Default

    Hi Roger,
    I got started on one seat of the car. I finally got the whole seat semi saturated. I the covered them with celophan paper to keep it from evaporating. Is this OK?
    I did noticed, The Hydrator, will not be enough for the other seat. Do you sell the hydrator by itself?

    BTW, how long should I keep them moist, up to 72 hrs?

    Thank you, and thanks for all your help.

    Regards,
    Nicolas


    #1
    Name:  image1.JPG
Views: 194
Size:  3.24 MB


    #2
    Name:  image3.JPG
Views: 219
Size:  2.88 MB

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greater Vancouver, Canada.
    Posts
    4,788

    Default

    The Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 system is to rejuvenate or soften up the leather structure.

    The fat liquor (fat and oil) contents up to 15% is the "lifeblood of leathers” as it evaporates or ages the leather degenerates.

    No good to have air space for either the Towel-5 or the plastic sheet.
    Direct contact without air space preferred.


    >>> Ok should i take towels better, or squeeze out air?

    Squeeze out air.

    Try stretching back to dimension while it is still damp.

    To hold back the shrinkage will need Fatliquor-5.0.

    Lay towel on the seat and seat on it with movement may save you some strength.

    What do you think, most people just do just that gone out for a drive.


    >>> Ok got seat nice and soft.
    How many times should I apply the fat liquor?
    I applied it now and it's starting to soak in.
    One last, can you explain me again the last step of fatliqour where I need to apply hydrator again?


    Repeat application as long as the leather can take in at each “almost” 25% drying cycle.
    I will explain the Hydrator-3.3 after you are happy with the softness.


    >>> I believe the seat has dried by now.
    Yes leather is much softer now.
    If you remember I had an issue with a cleaner that made much of these hard spots, as I believe it went through the stiches and then hardened.
    Even though after completing your process, 99% of seat is fine, and removed almost but 2 small sections of the hard from the previous cleaning.
    It was very soft before I applied the fatliquor.
    Should I redo that small section again, or do I have to do the whole seat again.


    You may just concentrate on those harder spots.


    >>> In regards to the Hydrator, what should I do now?

    When the surface is eventually dried with Fatliquor-5.0, remnants sticky residue may remain on the surface that may attract soiling. Hydrator-3.3 is for cleaning these sticky residues preferably with a horsehair Brush-1 and re drive them into the leather until the solution becomes clear or simply wipe them off and see that the last spray is crystal clear. Let the final drying be a “slow” dry to produce a more supple leather

    Roger Koh
    Leather Care System Formulator
    Consultant / Practitioner / Instructor
    web: www.leatherdoctor.com
    forum: www.leathercleaningrestorationforum.com
    email: roger@leatherdoctor.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •