Pigmented (Mono-Tone) - Prep-7.7 for a cream colored sectional - How much dwell-time?

Hello,

I am a leather repair tech. I saw your product, Prep 7.7 for blue jean dye.

I do this work for fabric protection/leather protection Insurance plans...eg. Guardsman, Guardian etc....and no one covers this type of damage, so I've never had to sweat it.

Now I picked up an account that DOES cover this damage. I was sent the work order for a cream colored sectional. Although the customer said it happened in 1 event, most people lie in order to take advantage of the insurance and have them deal with it so I would say it's probably a years worth of lying around on the furniture while it soaked in the dyes....so I see your product, and it's speaking about dwell time......How much dwell time? Since I perform home visits I can't be there for hours dealing with this.

Thanks,

Sal

Thanks for asking about Dwell-Time.

Quote from - Leather Standard and Reference Cleaning Guide IICRC S300

11.2.4 Time
It is recommended that the preconditioner or cleaner be allowed 5 to 10 minute of dwell time before proceeding. Dwell time provides the opportunity for the cleaners to fully emulsify or suspend stubborn soils. Exception may be made in cases where color testing reveals unstable dyes. In those cases soil removal must proceed immediately. Preconditioners should not be allowed to dry before soil extraction takes place.

Prep-7.7 is classify as a preconditioner and its normal dwell time if from 10 to 30 minutes, however for stubborn stains it can be left to dwell for up to 72 hours and has to be kept moist with a cling wrapper over it to allow suspended stain to reverse transfer to a much more absorbent paper towel. You may have seen this technique used with flexibility.

In normal situation, the product is left to dwell for up to 30 minutes, the suspended soiling is then removed with Clean-3.8 follows with Rinse-3.0.

In heavy rub-in situation the products is left to dwell with a paper towel that acts as reservoir and allowing the suspended dye stains to be absorbed by it. Meanwhile to maintain its moisture level from being evaporated a cling wrapper is hled over it. This is normally dwell over night for an inspection, otherwise keep dwelling for another day with a fresh replenishsing of the product. In most of these dye stain removal it is not a problem, unless the finishes is worn and the stains is not sitting on the pigmented finishes but have penetrated that require extra dwell time overnight.

Perhaps you have to arrrange for additional visit to handle penetrated dye stains problem on not healthy finishes leather.

Cream colored sectional is definite “pigmented” leather as there is no white aniline dyes for leather and Prep-7.7 will definete remove the dye transfer stains – the question is how severe it is – with a year of rub in, not only the dyestuff penetrates, the topcoats has weaken from rubbing as well, so release dyestuff may be reabsorbed by the leather unless a more absorbent material is used for reverse transfering the release dye stains.

Note that a leather-safe version Prep-4.4 (pH 4.4) is design for the other aniline leathers including nubuck and suede and other unfinished leathers.

Remember that when we remove dye stains, the leather finishes types has to be taken into consideration and especially if they are dyed as well.

Bleach-9.9 is used as a booster to the Prep-7.7 for extreme cases especially for ballpoint ink dyes, seldom used for dye blue jean dye transfer, but is used on ink and print transfer.

So there are many usage for this Prep-7.7 (pH 7.7) as a preconditioner to penetrate, lubricate and suspend dye related stains.

To soften the leather thereafter Hydrator-3.3 follows with Fatliquor-5.0 is a holistic system when leather is absorbent, otherwise it will dry stiff.

Good to show pictures, I will be able to give you tips on how long the product should dwell.

Use this Pigmented Leather Problem Solving Guide for a holistic approach to cleaning and restoration.

Attachment 1643

Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant

This Kit P3 is a complete system for the removal of blue jeans dye on pigmented leather

Attachment 1642
Leather Doctor Kit P3 – Pigmented Leather Care Kit
Leather Doctor® Kit P3, pigmented leather care kit is an innovative leather-safe (pH 3 - 5) system developed for keeping leather at their highest level of appearance besides maintaining their structural chemistry integrity and enhancing their suppleness. Pigmented finishes develop micro crazing as it ages and heat dries out the fat and oil from these weak point and stitching holes. The diminishing of the fat and oil empties the leather that results in creases and wrinkles. Stiffness to the leather is another sign of fat and oil diminishing that collapse the inter fibrillary spaces making the fiber becomes stick together and when flexed during used will lead to cracks. Periodic use of Hydrator-3.3 to hydrate the stick together fibers prior to fat and oil replenishing with Fatliquor-5.0 will keep the leather supple and strong. Thus, reduce the premature ageing of the leather against stiffness and cracking. The surface wear of the leather is greatly reduced when friction noise is kept low. The noise reduction is accomplished with rub-resistant Protector-B+ that imparts a natural buttery-feel. Periodic cleaning and rinsing with Cleaner-3.8 follows by Rinse-3.0 to the body contact area helps reduce greasy soiling build-up. Removing of unwanted stains such as ink or the common new blue jeans is accomplished with Prep-7.7. Note that the mentioned product suffix number denotes its pH value in this leather-safe holistic care system.

Attachment 1644

I spoke to soon. I received a pic AFTER I asked the question. It seems that the blue jean transfer is from a single incident. This is one of the seat casings....it is also on 3 others.

Hopefully the photo will show up in this post......

You can see where the dye rubbed off. on various locations, but it"s NOT an overall soiling situation.

Here is some more info: Previously, the insurance company sent another tech...he tried with some type of cleaner, wiped it on & off and said "it's never going to come off"

Now the insurance company sent it to me, but the problem is, I live over 150 miles away from this customer, so multiple visits are out of the question. I was prepared to strip the color and lay in new color in the affected area's.....of course if I can get away with cleaning it out, I would rather do that.

One suggestion,

We send the Kit P3 direct to the customer and instruct how to proceed with the stain removal by themselves.

The stain although is a failed attempt will be completely removed in this condition.

Think of future reoccurrence - a kit at hand by the customer saves all the travelling from you as well.

What do you think?

Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant

Sorry....That is not a good idea.

I AM sent by the insurance company to take care of the problem. The customer has paid the insurance company to have a tech ( ME ) come and fix the problem. Having the customer do it poses these problems:

1) From the customers prospective..." Why do I have to do this"?
2) From the Insurance companies prospective...." Why do we need you?... and if you didn't go why should we pay you"? or " So, you went, after the customer removed the stain. Why is it that you think you should get paid"?
3) From my perspective: All of the above, plus, I end up paying and giving away the entire contents of kit P3.

As you can see, this is not a solution.....that's why I re-ask the question....In this current state, how how dwell time is needed yo lift the blue jean dye?

Thanks

There is no clear time frame about dwell-time for this incident.

During a failed attempt, the topcoat may be removed or deteriorated, thus when the stain is suspended without a healthy topcoat, the colorcoat may reabsorb the stains making removal much more difficult.


An original stains will take less dwell-time than a stain that have failed an attempt.

An overnight dwell will almost sure to remove this stain, realistically it may take 4 hours if the stain is removed attempting on dwell-time alone. To accelerate the suspending process a combination of horsehair agitation may help after 30 minutes of dwell-time. The existing failed attempt may have pushed the stain deeper into the leather that may require further dwell dwell-time after the horsehair agitation. This second stage of dwell time will have to rely on “reverse transfer” technique by placing a paper towel with tight contact so that the released stain is being absorb by the more absorbent paper towel than by the questionable leather finishes.

Scenario #1 is after a 30-minute dwell with horsehair agitation to complete remove the stain.

Scenario #2 is after a 30-minute removal, with inspection may require a further “reverse transfer” dwell up to 4 hours.

Scenario #3 is a further day with “reverse transfer” dwelling for a total removal.

When a topcoat is strong and the stain is above the surface it is much easier and Scenario #1 will work typically.

When a topcoat is questionable then a “reverse transfer” technique is necessary to further wick out the suspended dye stains from below the surface.

Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant

So far for Blue Jean Dye transfer, most applications are fully successful, however I have not have enough data from feedback to state how long it takes to remove. So I do not have a definite answer that is can be removed within a time frame. Every situation may have some variation of the existing finishes condition with above surface stains much quicker and reabsorbed stains on questionable surface much longer. So, sooner or later I can affirm that all blue jean dye stain is removable with Prep-7.7 even without using Bleach-9.9 as a booster to accelerate the removal process.

To accelerate the removal process Bleach-9.9 is added to the Prep-77 then activated with Hot water to a creamy paste at a ratio of 1: 2: 2 (Bleach-9.9: Prep-7.7: Hot Water).


Roger Koh
Leather Care Consultant

Product Information:


Attachment 1645
Leather Doctor Kit P7.di – Leather Dye / Ink Stain Removal Kit
Leather Doctor® Kit P7.di, pigmented leather dye / ink stain removal kit is an innovative concept of removing blue jeans dye and ink stains featuring a “reverse transfer” technique utilizing a paper towel over the dwelling Prep-7.7. Prep-7.7 works by penetrating, lubricating and suspending the stains on dwell time and the paper towel reverse absorb the stain instantaneously from the leather. Prior failed attempt with set-in stains may require the help of Bleach-9.9 as booster to the Prep-7.7 to remove the residual stains. Sticky residue is removes with Cleaner-3.8, rinses with Rinse-3.0 and pH balances with Acidifier-2.0 when Bleach-9.9 is cooperated. Hydrator-3.3 relaxes stiff leathers prior to fat and oil replenishing. Fatliquor-5.0 rejuvenates the leather structure with softness and suppleness when dry. MicroTop-54M is an option for renewing the topcoat from friction wear. Protector-B+ imparts a non-stick rub- resistant protection with a buttery feel that shield against sticky soiling and reduce friction noises that translate to less wear. Note that the mentioned product suffix number denotes its pH value in this holistic leather-safe dye and ink stain removal system.