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View Full Version : Pigmented (Two-Tone) - Smoke Odor - Why a nice person shouldn't buy on Craigslist -This leather sofa from Great Leather Inc. 1981; smells like an ashtray and has some rough areas, advice please!



Lovelee9
01-20-2011, 10:17 AM
I saw a leather sofa for sale on Craigslist and the person said it had no noticeable flaws. When I got there, um, lets just say it was flawed....but I'm too nice and didn't have the heart to walk away. I don't know what happened but I bought a smelly ugly couch and actually PAID for it. Then I came home, sat on it and cried. Is there any hope for it? If I tried to fix it myself would it cost more than buying a new leather sofa? The darn smelly thing is comfy, I will give it that.

Is it something I could fix and what would you recommend? The cushions are lighter than the rest of it. It also smells like an ashtray and has some rough areas I've taken pictures of.

Lovelee9
01-20-2011, 10:18 AM
I'll also add that the tag under the cushions said Great Leather Inc. 1981

Roger Koh
01-20-2011, 06:05 PM
Do you have information on the leather type; this will be useful when comes to the repairs.

Roger Koh
01-20-2011, 10:51 PM
1] Smell like an Ashtray:
Sounds like it’s from cigarette or could be from other natural substance like wood and paper that burns. Soot/smoke is the product of incomplete combustion; may be sticky and these micron carbon particles may be driven into the leather pores, crevices or through the dust cloth and off-gassing from where they lodged.

2] Some Rough Areas:
a. Picture #2/4 shows deep scratch
b. Picture #3/4 shows finish damages
c. Picture #4/4 shows abrasion through the leather structure


This Smoke Odor Removal Kit-SO.s will solve the Ashtray Smell.


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Kit-SOs.jpg
Leather Doctor® Smoke Odor Removal Kit-SO.s

Contents:
Prep-7.7 - 60ml
Prep-4.4 - 60ml
d’Smoke-4.7 - 250ml
Cleaner-3.8 - 250ml
Rinse-3.0 - 250ml
Hydrator-3.3 - 250ml
Fatliquor LS-5.5 - 250ml
Leather Scent-B - 120ml
Leather Scent-S - 120ml
Leather Eraser-4 - 1pc
Suede Eraser-5 - 1pc
Leather (horsehair) Brush-1 - 1pc
Nubuck (nylon) Brush-2 - 1pc
Suede (brass) Brush-3 - 1pc
3” Poly-Brush® - 1pc
Washable Rags - 5pcs

For the Rough Areas, you may need these 2 products – Leather Bond-3D and Impregnator-26.


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/Repairer5.jpg
Leather Repairer (5)

So what we need from you is probably the leather type; as the repairs require dye or pigment that will match your existing finish to be aesthetically pleasing.

Is there a sample swatch under the cushion?

Turn the cushion and take a picture comparing the unused and the used, may also help to identify it.


Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
01-21-2011, 06:12 AM
Thank you so much Roger. Here are a few more pictures.

Lovelee9
01-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Could you e-mail me a price on the leather repair and smoke removal kits? Actually, the smoke smell isn't that bad, it's faded and doesn't bother me anymore but I probably still need to condition the leather for repairing, correct? Thanks again.

Roger Koh
01-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Here are the pictures I repost for better viewing, the intention is to identify the leather type essentially to match the color system for the repair.

Coming back to your question that the odor is faded; probably it is still there as our brains ignore it sometimes; and smell is subjective depending how sensitive our olfactory organ can detect it. Surprising I have not known any equipment that can determine, classify or detect smell. Probably most dogs do know but only they can't tell us much.

The smell is off gassing from the carbon particles that is lodge in the pores, creases and spaces; when the temperature is colder it is not as prevalent as when it is hotter.

Get hold of someone to sit there for a while; and later than ask what do they smell. Someone not from this household may detect it but may not tell to embarrass you. So test it out, as this smell has to be rid off before thinking of conditioning - you do not want to cover it up nor pushing it further in.

Before doing so we have to determine the leather finish type:

The sequence of process has to start with the dry soiling removal using the leather Eraser-4 > Vacuuming > compress air blowing > dry cloth dusting.

The product that is used first is the Prep either in pH 7.7 for pigmented leathers or pH 4.4 for aniline leathers.

Then it is followed by the d'Smoke-4.7 > Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0.

Leather Rejuvenating is done with Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0.

Returning the leather to fresher than the showroom scent is with Leather Scent-B (buttery-feel).

So we still need to determine the leather type; besides for the prep; its for the color during and/or after the repairs.


#1
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/DSCN0123.jpg


#2
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/DSCN0124.jpg


#3
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/DSCN0125.jpg


#4
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/DSCN0127.jpg


#5
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/DSCN0133.jpg


#6
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/6-4.jpg


#7
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/7-4.jpg


#8
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/8-4.jpg

Lovelee9
01-22-2011, 12:57 PM
It's actually Classic Leather inc. that made the sofa so I checked and they're still in business, I'm asking them which type of leather they use, pigmented or aniline. As soon as I find out, I'll post. I took as many pictures as I could. The back isn't zippered but the main cushions are. I don't know how else to tell.

Roger Koh
01-22-2011, 01:27 PM
OK let’s see we can positively identify it, pictures helps if they are of high resolution.

Picture #6 tell us that the crust is aniline dyed; therefore it either “semi-aniline” or “aniline”.
A nail polish removal test can be done at the edge with a cotton swab; I believe you have – Do it the way you remove your unwanted nail polish – and see if it behaves exactly like removing nail polish – if it is then it is pigment coated (semi-aniline).

Test the residue that has been pick-up from the cotton swab by putting on top of a white absorbent paper – drip a drop of nail polish remover onto the cotton swab – see if the color bleeds and runs – if so it is aniline dyed with a gloss top coat – show us some picture of the sequence of this test.

If it is aniline leather, we will proceed to the next test to determine if it’s a pull-up type as shown in picture #2.


All effort may go to waste if leather is wrongly identified…


Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
01-22-2011, 01:50 PM
I can't seem to get it to bleed, I can pull up the color with nail polish remover but it comes off in small rubbery balls and adding more nail polish doesn't seem to make it run at all. Am I doing it correctly?

Roger Koh
01-22-2011, 03:17 PM
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn4/Rogerkoh/lovelee9.jpg

Yes you are doing it correctly!

What you have remove is the secondary color.

This shows that it is "semi-aniline" with a micro-pigment that result in little crumbs.


Test out the primary color with water droplets and work with the cotton swab if the color darkens - to determine if this layer is the primary pigment coating or it is the aniline dyed leather crust.

Lovelee9
01-22-2011, 04:08 PM
It didn't seem to darken when I rubbed it with water.

Roger Koh
01-22-2011, 04:37 PM
With this test; we know that you may need two pigment colors for those damage repairs especially to picture #3 & #4 types.

Lovelee9
01-22-2011, 04:45 PM
That makes sense. Could I start with cleaning/conditioning/removing odor and fixing before getting into coloring?

Roger Koh
01-22-2011, 04:59 PM
To conclude our finding; these are the recommended products that you may need:

Phase 1 - Restorative Cleaning in conjunction with Soot & Smoke Decontamination.
1] Kit-SA.c
2] d’Smoke-4.7
3] Leather Eraser-4

Phase 2 – Repairs & Color Refinishing.
1] Impregnator-26
2] Adhesor-73
3] Pigment Micro-54 (Ochre as the primary color; a possible of Black and Maroon to gives the range of brown based on the color strip test – to match as desired).
4] Topcoat Micro-72S (satin)
5] Optional is the Stucco-90.

I suggest to complete phase-I (without the non-stick protection); to see what may reveal after the restorative cleaning; to decide especial on the colors; the used and the unused areas.


Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
01-27-2011, 05:10 AM
All your help has been greatly appreciated. I'm trying to psych myself out that I can do this! I'll e-mail you when I'm ready to place my order for the Phase 1 stuff plus the repair materials. Most of my spare funds went into this impulse purchase but it shouldn't be too long. I saw you recommend Stucco-90 as optional, where would I use this in my repairs?

Also, I hope this is not a stupid question, I've looked through everyones pictures and do you leave the foam cushions inside their covers while doing all the steps?

Roger Koh
01-27-2011, 05:51 PM
I saw you recommend Stucco-90 as optional, where would I use this in my repairs?

Also, I hope this is not a stupid question, I've looked through everyones pictures and do you leave the foam cushions inside their covers while doing all the steps?


Leather Stucco-90 is use to fill up repairs; especially to the non-flex areas; however for a stronger repair; it is blend with Leather Bond-3D for a more fluid repair; colors can be added to the blend as well for the repair.

For the high flex areas; a more homogeneous stronger repair would be scraping the leather fiber from the suede side and fill with leather Bond-3D.


Do it as it is - Leave the foam in!


Roger

Lovelee9
02-07-2011, 07:44 AM
I'm ready to order the cleaner/conditioner phase 1 items.

What specifically do I need to repair picture number 2(small slices on arm)
and picture number 3 (missing leather roughed up area on cushion).

I had hoped to clean, condition and repair before moving on to coloring.

Roger Koh
02-07-2011, 02:07 PM
What specifically do I need to repair picture number 2(small slices on arm)

It's recommended to use Leather Bond-3D + Bond-7A (to smoothen out the repairs without the need of sanding it) + fibers from the reverse side of the same leather type as fillers (stronger to withstand stress from constant flexing; than if you would use Stucco-90 as fillers [for non-stress area repairs]).

and picture number 3 (missing leather roughed up area on cushion).

These areas suggest that the leather structure has weakens and need to be pH balanced / neutralized, rejuvenated, strengthen prior to color refinishing.

You may then have the wet phase and the dry phase to work on.


Wet Phase:
Dry smoke and soot removal with the soft side of the leather Eraser-4 > Prep-7.7 > d’Smoke-4.7 > Cleaner-3.8 > Rinse-3.0 > Inspect while damp to see it the feel is the same as the non-damaged areas in terms to tackiness or sliminess…and when further Rinse-3.0 does not improve the tactile-feel > Acidifier-2.0 (Inspect, if returns to normal proceed) > Hydrator-3.3 > Fatliquor-5.0 > Hydrator-3.3 (to drive stray surface fatliquor into the leather structure until squeaky feel).

Dry Phase Repair:
While leather damaged area is almost dry proceed with Impregnator-26 into the leather structure and laying the roughness in place with a smooth spatula like Leather Spatula-6 or equivalent (a handy tool for picture #2 repairs too, which I used myself for all leather repairs). Continue with surface repair as for picture #2 to a smooth surface.

Dry Phase Color Refinishing:
Adhesor-73 > Custom Color Pigment Micro-54 > Topcoat Micro-72S (satin) > Leather Scent-B.


I had hoped to clean, condition and repair before moving on to coloring.

As long as you keep the surface clean; there is no time limit to go into the next phase; but have to keep the sequence of process intact; especially the non-stick leather Scent-B.


Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
02-08-2011, 04:32 AM
Sounds like the impregnator 26 will work great. The splits on the arm are very small, the picture is extremely close up.

My main concern is the seat cushion in #3, which you also recommend the impregnator 26 for. I've drywalled our whole home so I'm hoping this will be similar with getting smooth results. If you feel I need leather bond 3-D for picture #4 please include it in my order when you invoice me. Along with as many detailed instructions you'll think I'll need:D

My man-clan has fallen in love with this beast of a couch. I hope I can extend it's life. Thanks!

Roger Koh
02-08-2011, 02:53 PM
To strengthen this "beast", pay attention to picture #3 when it is wet, to feel if it has a healthy squeaky feel or a denaturing slimy and sticky feel...and what’s need to be done to rectify it, as mention above; besides sealing the porosity with Impregnator-26 and the bonding effect of Leather Bond-3D; Bond-7A helps to melts down lumps or roughness to smoothen it without the need for sanding, unlike easy sanding drywall or Stucco-90; "this beast of a bond" is tough when dry, you may want to consider the help of Bond-7A to ease out any unforeseen roughness in the bonding repair.

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
03-05-2011, 05:58 AM
Couch is clean and does not reek, I am up to the steps of Hydrator and Fatliquor.

Please correct me if I'm incorrect in these steps, I apply the hydrator and after letting it soak, I will remove it with a white towel until it comes clean. Then after that I apply the fatliquor(how long do I let that soak in?) I will rinse it again with the hydrator as posted by you here: (to drive stray surface fatliquor into the leather structure until squeaky feel). After these steps I move on to my repairs.


When I have completed my repairs, I will have to order the dye and top coat. When I dye, it will just be the cushions and arms, correct? Or do I need to do the whole thing? Does the dye and top coat need to be applied with a spray gun or can it be brushed on?

Roger Koh
03-05-2011, 02:22 PM
Couch is clean and does not reek, I am up to the steps of Hydrator and Fatliquor.

Good that the result pleases you.

Please correct me if I'm incorrect in these steps, I apply the hydrator and after letting it soak, I will remove it with a white towel until it comes clean. Then after that I apply the fatliquor(how long do I let that soak in?) I will rinse it again with the hydrator as posted by you here: (to drive stray surface fatliquor into the leather structure until squeaky feel). After these steps I move on to my repairs.

Your purpose of extracting with a white towel until it comes clean is mainly to removed penetrated foreign residues and this is only one function you are focusing on the Hydrator-3.3; besides other benefits our eyes can’t see; and it’s OK.
Both the Hydrator-3.3 and Fatliquor-5.0 can be soak-in up to 3 days to a week when it is cling wrapped to fervent evaporation or continuing topping up the fatliquor as the water encasing the fat and oil breaks free and evaporates away.
Yes, the strays have nothing to do on the surface; that works belong to the Leather Scent-B to protect the topcoat (but only applied after the color refinishing, otherwise non-stick adhesion problem).


When I have completed my repairs, I will have to order the dye and top coat. When I dye, it will just be the cushions and arms, correct? Or do I need to do the whole thing? Does the dye and top coat need to be applied with a spray gun or can it be brushed on?

The only hurdle is to get the color matching right to do just spot coloring; otherwise a complete refinishing may be desirable to achieve a more pleasing aesthetic look.
To achieve a mono-tone look airbrushing is more predictable; otherwise a texture-look can be artistically created by a combination of brush, sponge, roller or wax paper.
If you wish you can even Old English Antique (translucent) it by airbrushing – since yours is almost like a chesterfield design (buttons).

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
03-07-2011, 01:47 PM
Figured out the cracks on arms. The seat area #3 has a deep spot, do I just keep applying the impregnator till it's smooth?

Also do you think you can match my color well enough without a sample or do I need to send a sample? Please send me a paypal invoice for the dye, top coat and adhesor and when I'm ready I'll place my order, should be soon.

Once the impregnator is dry is ok to sit on or do I have to wait till I dye and top coat it before anyone uses it?

Roger Koh
03-07-2011, 04:46 PM
The seat area #3 has a deep spot, do I just keep applying the impregnator till it's smooth?

This deep spot may need repair using Bond-3D and scraping the suede fibers as fillings.


Also do you think you can match my color well enough without a sample or do I need to send a sample?

The color strip looks reddish while the worn areas looks yellowish/orangey, to do spot coloring, it will be more accurate to calibrate on location to match localized areas that has deviated from the original hue or saturation or intensity or chroma.


Once the impregnator is dry is ok to sit on or do I have to wait till I dye and top coat it before anyone uses it?

Impregnator-26 as the name implies goes beneath the surface to strengthen the loose leather structure; any excess on the surface need to be removed. It’s OK to sit on it. It can be lightly sand to smoothen the surface prior to Adhesor-73 > Pigment Micro-54 (custom color) > Topcoat Micro-72S).

Lovelee9
03-09-2011, 03:38 AM
I'm mailing a sample from the couch for color, the sample matches the back of the couch a heck of a lot better than the cushions and arms do.

Might have to order another small bottle of Impregnator because my technique left a lot to be desired at the beginning. Plus trying to get those fibers with leather bond 3d in the deeper area was quite tricky. Doing my best though.

Roger Koh
03-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Plus trying to get those fibers with leather bond 3d in the deeper area was quite tricky.



Easier to do it this way:

Apply the Bond-3D first, then fill up with suede fibers from the reverse side of a donor piece. The only tool I used is Leather Spatula-6. You may like to try using a forcep to pick up the scrapped fibers and a simple bamboo skeewers or toothprick with modified tips to do the filling and compacting to level up.

When it is dry, the repairs will be stronger than the surrouning leather; any adjustment thereafter require Bond-7A to soften the Bond-3D to smoothen it out.

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Roger Koh
03-23-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm mailing a sample from the couch for color, the sample matches the back of the couch a heck of a lot better than the cushions and arms do.


I have received the sample…

This leather colorcoat type is made up of two layers; the primary color is Ochre in Color and the secondary color is a combination of Ochre/Tan/Black.

As some of the damaged areas are without the primary color; it has to be duplicated as per original sequence of colorcoating.

So, to have the above 3 colors to blend accordingly in situ is the best approach.


Tips:
Impregnator-26 > Bond-3D > Adhesor-73 > Pigment Micro-54 Ochre > Pigment Micro-54 Ochre/Tan/Black > Topcoat Micro-72Satin > Leather Scent-B.

Roger Koh
[email protected]

Lovelee9
03-24-2011, 07:16 AM
Adding in the black has me a bit worried. I have no idea how I'm going to get the desired look.

My game plan is to dye the cushions and the arms then top coat the whole couch. I believe I need:
Impregnator 26 (all my repairs are done but I need a hit a few spots again)
Adhesor 73
Ochre (small size)
Tan (small size
Black (small size)
Topcoat (large size)

I told my husband that my next step is dyeing and he looked thoroughly confused. He thought it was all fixed, he thinks it looks perfect. It does look pretty darn good with a distressed edge to it, like those fancy couches that Restoration Hardware sells. I told him if we plan on keeping it forever, I need to dye and seal it.

Roger Koh
03-24-2011, 11:46 PM
Adding in the black has me a bit worried. I have no idea how I'm going to get the desired look.

I will supply you pipette for each color. For a guesstimate you may start 50 drops of ochre with 50 drops of tan; then add 1 drop of black; mixed it well and test it out on a white card; hair dryer blow dry it and check against the spot you wish to do a touch up. Recalibrate by further dropping with recording the numbers of drop to reach your desired color. Have fun!


My game plan is to dye the cushions and the arms then top coat the whole couch. I believe I need:
Impregnator 26 (all my repairs are done but I need a hit a few spots again)
Adhesor-73
Ochre (small size)
Tan (small size
Black (small size)
Topcoat (large size)

You may do the spot touch-up with watercolor brush or even with cotton swab. If you intend to do the entire cushions you may want to consider using airbrushing for better feathering out seamlessly. The recommended size for Ochre and Tan should be in 250ml and Black in 60ml. As for topcoating, you have to ensure that the surface is thoroughly clean prior to application and again airbrushing would assure a more even application without the drips and streaks.


I told my husband that my next step is dyeing and he looked thoroughly confused. He thought it was all fixed, he thinks it looks perfect. It does look pretty darn good with a distressed edge to it, like those fancy couches that Restoration Hardware sells. I told him if we plan on keeping it forever, I need to dye and seal it.

Maybe the term dyeing confuse him, dyeing is staining; here we are talking of coating, just like color coating finger nails unlike dyeing or staining our hair. I believe the used areas where the color is more yellowish is the result of wearing of the colorcoat and the topcoat may not be there at all. If it looks pretty darn good, topcoat is still essential to protect and prolong the wear through practical usage. Otherwise you may wish to make it look brand new and color coating entirely is the answer.

Tips:
You may need some practice on cardboards, before attempting on the sofa.
Very fine spray slowly building the color up is the preferred procedure rather than one thick coating.